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Old 06-16-2019, 07:18 AM
 
9,662 posts, read 4,556,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
They deserve each other if the descriptions of their character are accurate.

Their egos seem to be their concern, not the fate of their citizens.

A deal is a compromise between all the parties in the deal.
It isn't suppose to end up with one of the parties 'losing'.
Trump doesn't know or understand that. And it sounds like this Xi guy isn't much better.

The new NAFTA should serve as history of what happens when Trump tries to bully nations. The USA still ends up with a deal that is good for the USA, the Canadians got a deal that was good for Canadians, and Mexico got a deal that they were happy with.

I suspect that is what is going to happen with China.

It doesn't serve either country to tear down the other country.

Even the "deal" that Trump is shooting for would be "winning" for China, just not as lopsided as we've become used to. It's not like Trump is trying to reach a trade surplus, just reduce the 5:1 deficit and for them to respect intellectual property.
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:19 AM
 
7,315 posts, read 3,771,676 times
Reputation: 3792
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
The funny thing is that if Trump did allow China to save face, the very same Leftists here will be bashing him for being weak. With the Leftists here, they will bash him regardless of what he does. That's what they do here 24/7.
He invites the bashing he receives. Grown ups don`t spend their time making up childish nicknames for political opponents.
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:20 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
5,595 posts, read 2,904,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
It isn't about 'saving face'. It's about understanding that international trade policies are give and take, compromise. It isn't a zero sum game.

I was okay with what happened with the new NAFTA and didn't bash Trump for being weak. I just bashed him for the chaos prior to the agreement. It wasn't necessary.

None of us can pretend to know what China's approach is on this one.

If we did, we would have a job sitting at the table negotiating the deal.

We have no clue. I suspect Trump doesn't either. He knows his myopic, simplistic approach -- China bad......
USA USA USA.

I hope someone does understand the Chinese and know how to handle them and Trump to resolve the issue and be done with it.

Think about this -- Trump is not in a position right now to be in a state of 'unknown' with this trade negotiations. 2020 election is just under a year and a half away. This administration needs this resolved in some way to declare a victory soon. China knows that too.
And you would be the first one to bash him if he "give" just a little to Xi. Please. When he met with KJU and complimented him, you Leftists went crazy and slammed him for being too friendly with Kim and that wasn't even giving NK anything but some meaningless compliment.
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:21 AM
 
9,662 posts, read 4,556,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
The new NAFTA should serve as history of what happens when Trump tries to bully nations. The USA still ends up with a deal that is good for the USA, the Canadians got a deal that was good for Canadians, and Mexico got a deal that they were happy with.

What are you saying? That Trump bullying other nations ends up in a great deal for everyone? And that is what you think will happen with China? Sounds like you have just proclaimed Trump as a great trade negotiator and endorsed his tactics.
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:26 AM
 
23,080 posts, read 12,293,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Even the "deal" that Trump is shooting for would be "winning" for China, just not as lopsided as we've become used to. It's not like Trump is trying to reach a trade surplus, just reduce the 5:1 deficit and for them to respect intellectual property.
The intellectual property is the concern for most. The trade deficit doesn't hurt or slow the USA capacity to grow...look at last year.

Economically 2018 was a great year -- yet there was a 12 per cent increase in trade deficit with China over the previous year. Sure some of that increase was a result of a surge in activity to try and avoid further tariffs that were being threatened. But the point is that the USA's economy can still grow even with the deficit with China.

Trump has made the deficit the focus because it is a simple concept. They send us to many goods.

And many of those goods sent to us from China are bought by American distributors, manufacturers, businesses -- some small businesses. Those American businesses, individuals need the cheap goods. There isn't going to be a magic explosion of American manufacturers for some of those goods.

It isn't so simple as just saying deficit bad.

Wait a minute -- why do they send us too many goods?

Because we, folks living in the USA, buy so many goods.

But somehow China is the bad guy & Americans have no role to play in that demand for cheaper goods from other countries.
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:31 AM
 
1,089 posts, read 478,047 times
Reputation: 739
Now it's too late for an agreement, unlike media descriptions of tariff war (this is now unlimited war). Huawei ban already declared the war, Xi has no choice but to go the next step to fight, regardless of the trade situation, which is a small deal of currency adjustment for neutralization.

Huawei isn't going to die and it is developing its own tech sphere, separating itself including doing away from Android. EU allies and others are still signing up Huawei 5G. The real effect of unstoppable war and separation is, China will be free to ban rare earth supply to stop American tech advancement and even survival. What do you think of economic impact of it?
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:41 AM
 
9,662 posts, read 4,556,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6oo9 View Post
Now it's too late for an agreement, unlike media descriptions of tariff war (this is now unlimited war). Huawei ban already declared the war, Xi has no choice but to go the next step to fight, regardless of the trade situation, which is a small deal of currency adjustment for neutralization.

Huawei isn't going to die and it is developing its own tech sphere, separating itself including doing away from Android. EU allies and others are still signing up Huawei 5G. The real effect of unstoppable war and separation is, China will be free to ban rare earth supply to stop American tech advancement and even survival. What do you think of economic impact of it?

Rare earth elements are a non-issue. They are actually not rare and we directly consume very little. Most of our rare-earth use is indirect, in the products we import. Unless China is going to cut off rare earth supply to the entire world, they will have zero success in limiting our end-use access. And in the long run, they would be doing us a huge favor by driving a re-emergence of our own rare earth production. I honestly hope they try to do this.
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,355,348 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Do you seriously think the trade situation would be different if China was the most democratic country in the world? Be honest, you cant possibly believe that. For the elites who set foreign policy, what matters is not democracy, but obedience. If China doesnt cave they show they are disobedient to the American ruling class. Thats the problem.
Do you seriously think I think democracy is an option at all? at what point did I even mention Democracy? Democracy will not come to china any time soon, if ever, and I don't honestly think it would be beneficial to China as it's not part of its culture.

The issue is the current CCP administration/cabinet/Politburo/whatever you prefer to call it, which has been consolidated to follow the word of one autocratic leader who is squandering the gains China has made over the last 20 years. From Deng Xiaoping to Hu Jintao, the Chinese leaders were all more focused on China's growth than their egos, but Xi is much more ego-driven and bas been willing to expedite China's rise at all costs so that he can claim victory as his. This is where a lot of China's problems are stemming from.
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:57 AM
 
1,089 posts, read 478,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Rare earth elements are a non-issue. ...
That is not the case at all. China has a monopoly on rare earth processing technology as well, even little american produced rare earth has to be sent to China for processing. California mine will take minimum 15 years to reopen, if it can be reopened at all. And China has a dominant 40% world of future reserve (little in western countries). Without rare earth, lasers, specialty alloys, electric motors ... and the entire tech world cannot survive, with just a disruption.

Overall, starting trade war is a bad idea. Economy is doing well but can be destroyed. China is slowing, but still growing at 6.8%, easily twice the speed of American economy's. GDP size and growth is not the problem, dependence on China is a big problem.
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Old 06-16-2019, 08:01 AM
 
9,662 posts, read 4,556,288 times
Reputation: 12550
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6oo9 View Post
That is not the case at all. China has a monopoly on rare earth processing technology as well, even little american produced rare earth has to be sent to China for processing. California mine will take minimum 15 years to reopen, if it can be reopened at all. And China has a dominant 40% world of future reserve (little in western countries).

Nonsense.
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