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Old 06-20-2019, 01:12 PM
 
12,682 posts, read 3,218,476 times
Reputation: 1578

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
What Treaty with Iran are you talking about?

Surely you don't think, because the NYT told you so, that backroom appeasement "deal" between Kerry and the Iranian dictators amounted to anything more than that?

That was about creating an Obama "legacy". And those mullahs laughed all the way to the bank at the hapless community agitator's stupidity.
What treaty are you talking about I wonder...

The one with Iran, France, Germany, the UK and the United States of America?

Are you talking about the JCPOA that now Iran is going to abandon?

Is this Trump talk you are regurgitating that has you believing this horrible deal (according to Trump) is worse than Iran now ramping up its enrichment of low-grade uranium and increasing its stockpile beyond the limitations outlined in the deal?

Are you talking about the deal Trump abandoned despite all our allies being strongly opposed to Trump's unilateral decision to do so?

The NYT you say?

Is there a news organization who hasn't reported essentially the same thing about this rather unusual case of the United States reneging on such a deal?
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:42 PM
 
8,019 posts, read 7,298,099 times
Reputation: 6394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
If Iran follows through on this threat we will be back to square one, what exactly was to point of breaking the agreement. It wasn't perfect but certainly was a step in the right direction and now what are the options. We are attempting to make a deal with NK while we tore down the agreement with Iran.
It was a treaty violation that was manufactured by the US State Department. The breach was expected to occur since the US announced on May 3 that it would stop giving waivers to Iran for export of heavy water and enriched uranium to keep the stockpiles within the agreed limits.

https://www.state.gov/advancing-the-...ar-activities/

The intent is to get the Europeans to abandon the treaty.
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Old 06-20-2019, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,897 posts, read 14,228,365 times
Reputation: 16081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
Better yet. Don't send our troops around the world to nation build. Bring the troops home to protect our borders like the Constitution says.
Except 90+% of Americans couldn't hand the decline in their Life-Style or Standard of Living.

Your army is out there so you can live large. Enjoy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Also the Mullahs in Iran have been portraying America as the boogeyman for the last 40 years.
And correctly so.

The US had a full-blown CIA station at the embassy mission in Tehran. They didn't have time to destroy documents when the students took over.

The US really did try to murder Prime Minister Mossadeq not once, not twice, but three times and failing that, they tried him in court on trumped up charges of nothing.

And why?

Because Mossadeq nationalized the oil and natural gas sources.

That's amusing considering everything in Britain, including British Petroleum which was the "Anglo" part of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, was nationalized.

What do you call it when a country who has 100% of its industries nationalized accuses another country of nationalizing its industries?

What benefit did Iran get from British control of their oil and natural gas?

None.

And it was the US who created this friction, not Iran.

The Shah had pancreatic cancer and told Bill Sullivan, the US Ambassador, he was going to abdicate. The Shah wanted visas for he and family to go to the US for medical treatment. Then as now, there's not much you can do for pancreatic cancer, but the Shah's best chance was the US.

The Shah didn't want either of his two sons to rule, and he and Sullivan agreed Khomeini would be the next leader of Iran.

Sullivan contacts the Brits, and they have a Jordanian living in Egypt and a Kuwaiti Imam who have a long-standing relationship with Khomeini to serve as "go-betweens."

The French DGSE figured it out.

I mean if you have a high-profile foreign dissident living in your country and a Jordanian and a Kuwaiti who are known to work for the British coming and going, you're gonna want to know why.

The French don't want Khomeini, they want their man Ayatollah Ruhollah, so the French leak info about the Shah's pending abdication at a mosque in Tabriz which served as Ruhollah's headquarters and where his allied met and it went down-hill from there.

News spread like wild-fire, all the Ayatollahs are jockeying for power and civil unrest starts. The Shah probably should have abdicated then, but he tried to restore order first and stupidly used the military to do that, which only exacerbated the problem.

Then, the idiot President Carter and his two psychopath neo-con staffers Gary Sick and Zbigneiw Brzezinski sent General Huyser to convince Iranian army commander to initiate a military coup.

That, is an act of war under international law.

What do you think Khomeini thought when he arrives in Tehran and there's Huyser and his army commanders?

Anyone with half a brain would realize that 1) you've been double-crossed, 2) stabbed in the back, 3) set up and 4) about to be assassinated.

After Khomeini stepped in, he executed all 7 of those army commanders, plus the head of the SAVAK (who certainly deserved it).

If Carter follows the advice of Sullivan and General Haig, then they roll out the red carpet for Khomeini and everything is fine. The US and Iran might not have been BFFs, but at least they'd have a cordial working relationship, and a lot of deaths could have been avoided.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
You probably blame the US for Pearl Harbor and 9/11.
I do.

Shortly after the Emperor gave the green-light, the US knew Japan was going to attack Pearl Harbor.

Japan didn't place an oil, iron/steel, rubber etc embargo on itself. The US did that, and that's why the Japanese even contemplated an attack on Pearl Harbor.

The Soviets had a spy, Viktor Sorge. He was actually an ethnic German. They're called Black Sea Germans. It goes back to the days of the Teutonic Knights and their kingdom and the Lithuanian Kingdom and the Polish Empire and all that.

For whatever strange bizarre reason, Hitler was enamored with Sorge and posted him at the Reich Embassy in Tokyo. Sorge fed intelligence to the Soviets and US.

Sorge made a small but understandable and forgivable mistake.

He misidentified a ship. The ship Sorge saw was actually the sister-ship of one of the ships in the Japanese Fleet. A casual observer like Sorge would never be able to tell the difference between the two ships.

Based on Sorge's information, the US believed the Japanese Fleet would be in a position to strike on Wednesday, December 10th, or Thursday, December 11th.

The US prepared a textbook classic counter-ambush for the Japanese Feet.

The US set up a radar unit on one of the outer islands. It fueled and armed every fighter aircraft and parked them on the airfields for quick take-off. It sent the carriers out to a strike position. It arrayed ships in the harbor to maximize air defense capabilities. Then it brought in four squadrons of B-17 bombers.

The counter-ambush was simple. Radar detects incoming Japanese aircraft. All US fighters get airborne and wait to pounce on the hapless Japanese aircraft. The fighters are stripped away and the bombers and torpedo bombers are decimated. What few get through are destroyed by ship-based air defenses.

With the first wave annihilated, stragglers flee back to the carriers. US fighters pursue, locate the Japanese carriers and radio their positions to the US carriers who launch their attacks on the Japanese.

With the four Japanese carriers sunk or burning, B-17s come in and mop up, and sink most of the rest of the Japanese ships.

Then, FDR gets on radio and says it was a day of infamy and the dastardly Japanese were defeated in a stunning brilliant US victory and the US can force Japan to surrender and it's over.

But, that's not what happened, because the Japanese arrived a few days before the over-confident US thought they would.

Those documents are slated for declassification in 2023, but so long as there's a living WW II veteran, I doubt they will be.

While I don't believe the US government orchestrated 9-11, it's clear that individuals within government acted on their own did.

Someone enticed board members of the New York and New Jersey Port Authority to move up the bid schedule of the WTC from 2005 to 1999.

Someone convinced Vornado Realty to back out of the winning bid so Silverstein could get it.

Someone convinced others to schedule a series of military training exercises and FEMA exercises on 9-11.

Someone made sure the FEMA exercise would be held in New York City.

Very late in the game, someone piggy-backed two aircraft onto the original two aircraft to attack the Pentagon and White House and made sure those terrorists were able to enter the US undetected.

Someone convinced others to put a halt to FBI investigations of certain terrorist activities.

It's obvious the pilots of Flight 77 were coached. The logical attack is a straight in approach, but that's not what the pilot did. The pilot made a very deliberate and difficult low-altitude turn to attack a particular side of the Pentagon, a side that just happened to be undergoing remodeling and refurbishment, and so had very few people in that location.

In case you're not aware, the Pentagon does have a very large interior court-yard.

Why not aim for that? And, why was it so important to penetrate the side of the building?

If you want to maximize damage, you fly into the roof, not the side, not to mention it's much more difficult to get the planet at level flight to attack the side, rather than diving straight into the roof?

Someone saw fit to ensure that federal law and Pennsylvania State law was violated by not reconstructing Flight 93.

Wanna see the Eight-Ball? You know, TWA Flight 800? It's reconstructed and still sitting in a warehouse, in New Jersey I think.

Why would you not want to reconstruct Flight 93? Well, if Flight 93 was shot down like Donald Rumsfeld said it was, you probably wouldn't wanna do that.

The port engine wasn't with the aircraft, which is wholly consistent with a heat-seeking missile like a Sidewinder fired from an F-16 striking the port engine, knocking it from the pylon.

If private actors in government were involved, your government would move as quickly as possible to cover it up, because that's what governments do. Governments are loathe to take responsibility for anything, especially if it's bad.
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Old 06-21-2019, 01:46 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale
1,130 posts, read 554,305 times
Reputation: 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
When we’re in our tenth year of guerrilla warfare in the cities, villages and mountains in Iran and losing 300 soldiers a month, you MAGA hatters make sure to take responsibility for it.
I was a child in 1979 and remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis. It dominated the news of the time. The international conflict led to a large increase in gas prices and a severe shortage. Lines around gas stations extended for blocks. I lived in rural AZ, and in the summer of 1980 I refused to come along on any trips to Phoenix because the gas shortage and lines were horrible. I just spent the summer riding my bike in rural AZ far from the traffic jams of Metro Phoenix or any other large city.

Now that I am an adult, I have come to understand that the oil crisis, gas shortage, and price increase were major factors in holding President Carter from being re-elected. I just saw a news segment asserting that a major conflict with Iran in 2019 could lead to the same problem for President Trump - a major international crisis preventing re-election.

Personally, I hope the situation de-escalates and stability in the region is achieved. But it's turbulent right now. Maybe I should fill up my gas tank soon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_oil_crisis
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:10 AM
 
23,079 posts, read 12,289,570 times
Reputation: 7304
Trump thinks it is someone who just made a mistake.

Oh well -- who knows right?
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Old 06-21-2019, 05:36 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,989 posts, read 13,924,061 times
Reputation: 7019
Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
It was a treaty violation that was manufactured by the US State Department. The breach was expected to occur since the US announced on May 3 that it would stop giving waivers to Iran for export of heavy water and enriched uranium to keep the stockpiles within the agreed limits.

https://www.state.gov/advancing-the-...ar-activities/

The intent is to get the Europeans to abandon the treaty.
We backed out of an agreement that prevented Iran from gaining nuclear capability now we are worried about noncompliance with an agreement that we tore up. This is one for the record books.
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Old 06-21-2019, 07:13 AM
 
5,430 posts, read 1,543,749 times
Reputation: 2264
Trump should bomb Iran in October 2020, the ultimate October surprise.
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:13 AM
 
12,682 posts, read 3,218,476 times
Reputation: 1578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
And it was the US who created this friction, not Iran.
Ya think?!?
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:15 AM
 
12,682 posts, read 3,218,476 times
Reputation: 1578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post

While I don't believe the US government orchestrated 9-11, it's clear that individuals within government acted on their own did.

If private actors in government were involved, your government would move as quickly as possible to cover it up, because that's what governments do. Governments are loathe to take responsibility for anything, especially if it's bad.
https://books.google.com/books?id=uq...09-11.&f=false
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:17 AM
 
12,682 posts, read 3,218,476 times
Reputation: 1578
Quote:
Originally Posted by grad_student200 View Post
I was a child in 1979 and remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis. It dominated the news of the time. The international conflict led to a large increase in gas prices and a severe shortage. Lines around gas stations extended for blocks. I lived in rural AZ, and in the summer of 1980 I refused to come along on any trips to Phoenix because the gas shortage and lines were horrible. I just spent the summer riding my bike in rural AZ far from the traffic jams of Metro Phoenix or any other large city.

Now that I am an adult, I have come to understand that the oil crisis, gas shortage, and price increase were major factors in holding President Carter from being re-elected. I just saw a news segment asserting that a major conflict with Iran in 2019 could lead to the same problem for President Trump - a major international crisis preventing re-election.

Personally, I hope the situation de-escalates and stability in the region is achieved. But it's turbulent right now. Maybe I should fill up my gas tank soon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_oil_crisis
Great book about this if anyone is interested in more of this history...

"The Prize: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money, and Power" by Daniel Yergin
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