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Old 06-18-2019, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
22,873 posts, read 16,254,255 times
Reputation: 12785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by juneaubound View Post
I get what you're saying TigerLily. People whine about helping other countries and then whine when we spend the money here at home.

I will say this though - I don't have a problem will helping people. At all. But there is "something" that just irks the crap out of me. I work hard - I work VERY hard for what I have - and just..............handing so much to so many and requiring so little from them in return just pisses me off.

It just does.

There should be something............volunteer hours...........required work hours............time frames for free stuff.............something..............some kind of effort on the part of those who receive. I don't have time to expand on it, but I think you understand where I'm headed with this.
I get what youíre saying but weíre talking about children.

Not to mention, service programs have not been well-received in this country.
AmeriCorps, for example, was met with all sorts of derision as is talk of any other types of national service (which I am in favor of, BTW.)

I have absolutely nothing against this model. The charter school that a couple of my grandkids attend requires a certain number of hours from parents in lieu of tuition, or something, but, the number who donít make their hours every school year is actually pretty high. This is a fairly affluent area where the parents tend to work many hours many miles from the school.


If these people, who are highly motivated and committed to their childrenís education, cannot manage to honor this commitment, how do we expect those with fewer means to do so?
Iím not saying that we shouldnít, just that we need to be realistic in our expectations.

 
Old 06-18-2019, 08:19 AM
 
23,058 posts, read 12,277,718 times
Reputation: 7299
I have a completely different experience with volunteering and I think our bias and what we bring when we volunteer impacts what we want to see.

In the schools I have been involved with, the families in need don't line up for handouts. We had to search them out, we had to encourage them to use the resources available. Teachers had to be amateur investigators to identify the kids who were in need of assistance.

Food & clothing drives, free breakfast and lunches, assistance with the 'extras' required by teachers.......were all things that we often had to work at giving out.

People were prideful and didn't want to be known as the family in the classroom that needed a handout.

It was all so discrete......and still families struggled because they just were afraid someone may find out they were the family that needed help.

Social programs can be abused.....and yes care should be taken to ensure that the majority are in need. Recognizing that the price for making sure some families in need get what they NEED, may be that some families not in need get more than they need.

It's a difficult balance.



And just as a side story. In some of the schools, when there was a school trip and additional funds required...the biggest offenders of not paying (schools wouldn't make fees mandatory -- it was requested but if a kid didn't pay they still got to go)......were the rich ones. They felt entitled -- their tax dollars paid for their child to go on that trip....they did not need to pay anymore.

I have lived in mainly conservative communities, with Republican controlled govt.

Not all lining up for the handout are in need or liberal.
 
Old 06-18-2019, 08:20 AM
 
Location: SGV
24,760 posts, read 9,640,166 times
Reputation: 9714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
And lest we forget:

https://rare.us/rare-politics/rememb...ives-mattered/
Yeah the same benvolent govt that robs us to feed the "poor"
Once again I must defend the governments of the world. If you can't steal from the rich to feed the poor who will you be able to kill at a later date?

This is why the U.S. was wise to aid and fund Saddam in the 1980s during the Iran-Iraq War. If Iran had won instead of the generally accepted stalemate maybe the U.S. doesn't get the opportunity to kill hundreds of thousands Iraqi innocents in the subsequent decades.

So there's today lesson: always keep funding your schemes. You never know when you'll need to kill the beneficiaries at a later date.

 
Old 06-18-2019, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,201 posts, read 463,212 times
Reputation: 2541
Quote:
Originally Posted by WMak70 View Post
Oh, but it is. The major difference between how your side views disadvantaged people vs how we do is, you see them as moochers who are simply taking from the rest of us. We see them as , "But for the Grace of God, there go I". Not everyone goes to bed with a full stomach every night, not everyone has the peanut butter and jelly to pack a lunch for their kids. Some people are just up against it and have no way out.

The rich, old men who make up the Republican party want nothing to do with these folks, but we do care about them. Your side would be thrilled if they simply starved, but that will never happen as long as we have some say about it.

I would much rather a few game the system if it means supporting those truly in need, rather than not offering that support to keep the few from gaming the system. It is my duty and my desire to mitigate the suffering of those who do not have the advantages that I have.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
Breakfast?! Schools serve free breakfast, lunches - and now dinner is the new trend. WTH are the parents doing to parent?

Next we'll see a program to have other family members join their kids for the free dinners. It's ridiculous.

If it is to benefit the child, then the child will suffer because you want to make the parent suffer. That is backward. And our school system doesn't care if parents/friends join in. It hasn't added a significant cost to our program. The food per serving cost is low.


Quote:
Originally Posted by juneaubound View Post
There are also school districts that ask kids in need to bring a backpack to school with them on Fridays. Teachers fill the pack with food to get the kid/family through the weekend.

We have 2 such programs in our community to cover all elementary/middle school children. They are both dependent on donated food. I have helped pack these weekend food bundles. The one I did had two servings of oatmeal, 4 apples, a baggie of carrots & celery, a can of chicken noodle soup, a baggie of goldfish crackers, 2 bakery rolls, and a baggie of trail mix. Again, all donated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by verybadgnome View Post
Not sure how it is in your state but if the family is deemed low income they will qualify for SNAP as long as they have a job or are looking for a job. In Texas if a family of 4 makes less than $41,424 then they qualify and they are taken care of and therefore should have no need for these services. I guess you could argue that families of 4 making $42,000 should get something but I would counter argue that there has to be a cut off somewhere and people above a certain income have to live within their means.

Bottom line is there should be no duplication of benefits, which is inherently wasteful and not something any government program should do. More so that these are for entitlements which are not the same as rights.

https://yourtexasbenefits.hhsc.texas.gov/programs/snap

Not every child benefits from what his family has available. It is a program to aid a specific group--hungry children in the community. And by making it available to all, more kids are likely to go use it. So, I knew a boy who likely qualified for free lunch. But his parents didn't sign him up for it. He usually "made" his lunch--a piece of bread with some jelly, maybe some crackers. He was 8 years old, and usually came to the bus stop not having eaten breakfast. I know he didn't get much for dinner. Why should that boy suffer because he had cruddy parents? He is a real person. He was suffering because he was hungry. And there was intervention. But it is a round-and-round process that only ended a few years later because his father died and his mother just opted out. It took time--it's incomprehensible that he should suffer while waiting for grownups to do the right thing for him. The school ensured he ate. If he showed up at my door, I fed him dinner. But there were weeks where I believe he had no food in his house while authorities wrangled with rights, with placements, with courts. He deserved to be fed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
If teachers want to dig in their own pocket to do this, that's their business and I don't have a problem with it.

It's the breakfast and dinner thing I don't get. Eggs are cheap and quick to make. Dinner should be at home with the family. I just don't get it.

Not all family can be home at dinner. Not all family chooses to be home at dinner. The "shoulds" place the consequences on those that can least control it. Why should children suffer if the adults make poor choices, or just can't be there because of work, or are trying but not making it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by juneaubound View Post
I get what you're saying TigerLily. People whine about helping other countries and then whine when we spend the money here at home.

I will say this though - I don't have a problem will helping people. At all. But there is "something" that just irks the crap out of me. I work hard - I work VERY hard for what I have - and just..............handing so much to so many and requiring so little from them in return just pisses me off.

It just does.

There should be something............volunteer hours...........required work hours............time frames for free stuff.............something..............some kind of effort on the part of those who receive. I don't have time to expand on it, but I think you understand where I'm headed with this.

Again, do we put the consequences on kids? Or do we try to offer them resources so they can move beyond their current circumstances? In the case of kids, they go to school in exchange for a little bit of food. We give them that in order to provide a better chance at success. Does it work out? I don't know statistics. I only know anecdotal and observed circumstances. The family who lived across the street from me were very poor, and all got free lunches. Every single one of those children grew up to be gainfully employed and successful taxpayers. My best friend in elementary school lived in a poverty I could barely understand. They got free lunches, and my friend graduated from high school and had a very successful career in retail management (she had her first child at 15, and managed to carve out a good life for her family). These programs can have profound impacts on children.
 
Old 06-18-2019, 08:24 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
6,544 posts, read 3,650,165 times
Reputation: 12300
You are a human being first and a taxpayer second.
 
Old 06-18-2019, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
22,873 posts, read 16,254,255 times
Reputation: 12785
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Youíre disconnected. Most Americans are including myself.

This country is in a lot worse shape than people are letting on, and if youíre doing well enough to get three hots a day, itís easy to miss.

Americans have gotten good at making being poor look good, but a helluva lot of people arenít making it anymore. And itís a helluva lot more people than what you think.
Absolutely this.

Lots of people no one would expect are hanging on by their fingernails.
Just saw a report on my local news about the need for volunteers for Meals on Wheels.
According to the report, the need is due to a greater number of seniors requesting meals this year partly because they are are staying in their homes longer than in the past.
Unsaid, of course, is the fact that itís expensive to maintain those homes, pay utilities, etc., so maybe they canít afford to buy food too.

Drive by one of those homes with its manicured lawn and youíd never know that someone living inside is starving, but thatís reality for many in this country.

Too many simply refuse to see or believe it.
 
Old 06-18-2019, 08:33 AM
 
7,568 posts, read 2,219,660 times
Reputation: 9128
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
Absolutely this.

Lots of people no one would expect are hanging on by their fingernails.
Just saw a report on my local news about the need for volunteers for Meals on Wheels.
According to the report, the need is due to a greater number of seniors requesting meals this year partly because they are are staying in their homes longer than in the past.
Unsaid, of course, is the fact that itís expensive to maintain those homes, pay utilities, etc., so maybe they canít afford to buy food too.

Drive by one of those homes with its manicured lawn and youíd never know that someone living inside is starving, but thatís reality for many in this country.

Too many simply refuse to see or believe it.
No one is denying that there are poor in this country.

Can you prove that the LEVEL of FREE FOOD options in this country are necessary?

Or have we gone above and beyond what is needed with all of the food banks, soup kitchens, free breakfast / lunch + Friday backpacks with weekend food, + all the welfare programs ...

are absolutely, 100% necessary? Truly necessary?
 
Old 06-18-2019, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
21,865 posts, read 21,703,455 times
Reputation: 21472
Quote:
Originally Posted by WMak70 View Post
Oh, but it is. The major difference between how your side views disadvantaged people vs how we do is, you see them as moochers who are simply taking from the rest of us. We see them as , "But for the Grace of God, there go I". Not everyone goes to bed with a full stomach every night, not everyone has the peanut butter and jelly to pack a lunch for their kids. Some people are just up against it and have no way out.

The rich, old men who make up the Republican party want nothing to do with these folks, but we do care about them. Your side would be thrilled if they simply starved, but that will never happen as long as we have some say about it.
This program serves anyone who shows up not just disadvantaged people. So rich, old, republican men can get free lunch too.

And no one is starving.
 
Old 06-18-2019, 08:40 AM
 
23,058 posts, read 12,277,718 times
Reputation: 7299
I suspect if you doubt the need for a food bank, volunteering at one for a period of time may give you insight into the need for one or not.

Rather than just 'think' that there is not the need identified.

It's a legit question but the only way to get an answer is to immerse yourself in the volunteer groups that spend time and money providing the food/clothing/housing.

I suspect you will learn quick enough.

From my experience, the need was always there. The takers weren't always the lazy ones...some were the rich ones who felt entitled. You see -- it isn't just poor people that grab for the freebies. It tends to be most people -- rich or poor, working or not.

Working with our church some of the most generous donors were ones that didn't have money. We use to have to charge for some services and it was the family with four kids living in their 750K home that would complain about having just paid for soccer, swimming, tennis, golf and now they had to pay for their Sunday school classes......it just didn't seem right that these people had to pay for Sunday school they told me.
 
Old 06-18-2019, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,723 posts, read 9,370,450 times
Reputation: 5239
Feeding hungry people? Oh the horror
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