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Old 06-20-2019, 03:15 PM
 
15,407 posts, read 7,873,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I've heard people say that.

But I've also seen overt male homosexuals tolerated in black communities since the early 60s, even in church congregations, and black lesbians pretty much go where they want and do what they want.

I can only give a positive witness that black men who are not gay vigorously dissent to being thought gay.

I agree and also agree with Darryl in that we are both outspoken but an accepting bunch. I think a lot of my mother and my husband in this. Both of them do not like homosexuality. My mother is probably more "against" it than my husband because she is VERY Christian and VERY devout and VERY into scripture. However, because she is VERY into scripture, she also is VERY accepting and kind to people who are homosexual in her personal interactions. She also will not demean them in their face or allow other people to demean them in her presence. But she does see it as a sin and feels that it is a "choice" and that it is being spread, in part by media. She is afraid one of her grandkids may "turn gay." So I would consider her a homophobe. She is afraid of homosexuality but she is not afraid of the person if that makes sense.

My husband is more outspoken about it and he actually isn't as bad as he used to be (he blames me for this lol also in that I have a gay sister and he is super cool with her and because of my sister, I don't allow him to badmouth LGBTQ persons in my presence, if he does we will probably get into an argument and he just stopped making those comments because he wants to keep the peace in our household). He has never been unkind to my sister. He has also never been unkind to one of my very best friends, who is a gay black man who was my roommate in college. He has, however, asked both of them some rather uncomfortable questions about them being gay. My sister just tells him to **** and have a drink and chill and my friend, after initially getting upset/frustrated with him, finally realized that he is just weird and likes to say blunt things at times (and FWIW he is blunt and asks uncomfortable questions about everyone nearly everywhere we go lol so it is not unique to gay people). But he'd never do anything to hurt anyone and he'd never "disown" a family member or friend for being gay.

Just like I think homophobia is common in black America, I also think that tolerance of others and acceptance is a very common cultural characteristic of ours as a demographic. I have unfortunately though known some black families who were/are atrocious to their gay teens though and especially trans teens in particular (and I'll note that even my close family members see transgendered people as "different" than gays/lesbians/bi persons). Those are rare but I have a cousin right now who I recently found out basically told his son, who recently came out, to never speak to him again. I heard of this from another relative and was super pissed at the cousin. Not sure what I'll say to him when I see him but it won't be kind.
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Old 06-20-2019, 03:20 PM
 
15,407 posts, read 7,873,596 times
Reputation: 7988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
But that fact alone indicates black Americans are not more homophobic than white Americans.
IMO black Americans are more homophobic because we are the most religious. Religion dictates that homsexuality is a sin and due to that there are a lot of black people who hate homosexuality and view it as a choice and who are very nasty to gay people.

The most common hate crime in black America is black people (primarily black men) beating up gay black people. I have a lot of gay black friends and as mentioned above, I have gay family members. Nearly all of them at some point in time, and especially all of the black gay men have been attacked before by straight black men - like jumped and attempted or actual assault occurred.

I feel that homophobia is more common amongst black males, but the black females I know/have known who have homophobic beliefs were often 10 times worst than black men.
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:35 PM
 
5,152 posts, read 1,421,631 times
Reputation: 3183
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Some people do not live in fear of being ascribed labels by the left, designed to intimidate and alter behavior through fear.
Most of us are used to being labeled this or that, particularly those of us, who the left believes should automatically be put into a group they think a label applies to. My partner and I have been greatly shunned and ostracized for being gay Trump supporters.
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:24 AM
 
12,636 posts, read 3,213,696 times
Reputation: 1573
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
I agree and also agree with Darryl in that we are both outspoken but an accepting bunch. I think a lot of my mother and my husband in this. Both of them do not like homosexuality. My mother is probably more "against" it than my husband because she is VERY Christian and VERY devout and VERY into scripture. However, because she is VERY into scripture, she also is VERY accepting and kind to people who are homosexual in her personal interactions. She also will not demean them in their face or allow other people to demean them in her presence. But she does see it as a sin and feels that it is a "choice" and that it is being spread, in part by media. She is afraid one of her grandkids may "turn gay." So I would consider her a homophobe. She is afraid of homosexuality but she is not afraid of the person if that makes sense.

My husband is more outspoken about it and he actually isn't as bad as he used to be (he blames me for this lol also in that I have a gay sister and he is super cool with her and because of my sister, I don't allow him to badmouth LGBTQ persons in my presence, if he does we will probably get into an argument and he just stopped making those comments because he wants to keep the peace in our household). He has never been unkind to my sister. He has also never been unkind to one of my very best friends, who is a gay black man who was my roommate in college. He has, however, asked both of them some rather uncomfortable questions about them being gay. My sister just tells him to **** and have a drink and chill and my friend, after initially getting upset/frustrated with him, finally realized that he is just weird and likes to say blunt things at times (and FWIW he is blunt and asks uncomfortable questions about everyone nearly everywhere we go lol so it is not unique to gay people). But he'd never do anything to hurt anyone and he'd never "disown" a family member or friend for being gay.

Just like I think homophobia is common in black America, I also think that tolerance of others and acceptance is a very common cultural characteristic of ours as a demographic. I have unfortunately though known some black families who were/are atrocious to their gay teens though and especially trans teens in particular (and I'll note that even my close family members see transgendered people as "different" than gays/lesbians/bi persons). Those are rare but I have a cousin right now who I recently found out basically told his son, who recently came out, to never speak to him again. I heard of this from another relative and was super pissed at the cousin. Not sure what I'll say to him when I see him but it won't be kind.
Again, we're just talking human nature in general, though our "nature" in these regards can be very different depending on a host of factors already touched upon. No doubt having a family member who is gay often tends to "soften" one's nature along these lines too...
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:28 AM
 
12,636 posts, read 3,213,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
IMO black Americans are more homophobic because we are the most religious. Religion dictates that homsexuality is a sin and due to that there are a lot of black people who hate homosexuality and view it as a choice and who are very nasty to gay people.

The most common hate crime in black America is black people (primarily black men) beating up gay black people. I have a lot of gay black friends and as mentioned above, I have gay family members. Nearly all of them at some point in time, and especially all of the black gay men have been attacked before by straight black men - like jumped and attempted or actual assault occurred.

I feel that homophobia is more common amongst black males, but the black females I know/have known who have homophobic beliefs were often 10 times worst than black men.
Ultimately the problem here for most is the influence of religion...

I have a brother-in-law who is black and very religious. I remember him explaining to me not too long ago that he accepts gays, because he too has sinned. Hello?

Was everything I could do to explain to him that to be gay is not to be a "sinner" far as a whole lot of people are concerned. Accepting or not, to put that on gay people is just wrong!

Maybe I should have told him I accept him too, even though he is black...
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:31 AM
 
12,636 posts, read 3,213,696 times
Reputation: 1573
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound View Post
Most of us are used to being labeled this or that, particularly those of us, who the left believes should automatically be put into a group they think a label applies to. My partner and I have been greatly shunned and ostracized for being gay Trump supporters.
Do you understand the REASONS for being "shunned" beyond the labels?
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Old 06-21-2019, 12:35 PM
 
20,084 posts, read 11,147,574 times
Reputation: 20121
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
IMO black Americans are more homophobic because we are the most religious. Religion dictates that homsexuality is a sin and due to that there are a lot of black people who hate homosexuality and view it as a choice and who are very nasty to gay people.

The most common hate crime in black America is black people (primarily black men) beating up gay black people. I have a lot of gay black friends and as mentioned above, I have gay family members. Nearly all of them at some point in time, and especially all of the black gay men have been attacked before by straight black men - like jumped and attempted or actual assault occurred.

I feel that homophobia is more common amongst black males, but the black females I know/have known who have homophobic beliefs were often 10 times worst than black men.
I have something to say about that, as well. The problem is that Christianity in America has just been used as a gang-sign for WASP culture, and black Americans have bought into it.

Malcolm X hurled a challenge at black Christians that we did not pay close enough attention to.

For sure, Jesus is real--I know that. But unfortunately black Americans did not have someone like Roger Williams who told the Indians, "Jesus is real, but white men just want to steal your land--so don't join their churches."

Jesus is real, but we should have been paying attention to Malcolm X about how white people did church.

When people can commit a lynching--torture a man, burn his body, hang the burning and dying body from a tree, clip off fingers and toes as souvenirs--and have a neighborhood picnic under the smoldering body--and then all go to church the next day...those people are doing church hella wrong.

We should have stood back and recognized that the way WASPs do church is and has been rotten for centuries, and we should have gone back to the drawing board.

We can look, for example, at how the WASP way of doing church views the poor in a different light from the way scripture views the poor. The WASP way views the poor as suspect, probably sinful, and undoubtedly deserving to be poor. Scripture recognizes that that the system of human government exploits people and keeps people poor, regardless how hard they work.

The WASP concept of doing church is based on being the religion of the dominant culture in bed with the government. That is certainly not the way Jesus and His apostles set it up. It was set up to be a minority culture in tension with the whatever human culture and government was dominant. Roger Williams pointed out that dichotomy 'way back in 1644.

It's not as though the western mode of Christianity is the only one around, and certainly such issues as the toleration of slavery are major clues that it's not the best one around.

But even today, most black Americans follow a way of doing church that merely apes the the WASP concept that we ought to know is rotten. To the extent that blacks are homophobic is an example of the extent to which we still ape the WASP concept of church.
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Old 06-22-2019, 12:05 PM
 
12,636 posts, read 3,213,696 times
Reputation: 1573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I have something to say about that, as well. The problem is that Christianity in America has just been used as a gang-sign for WASP culture, and black Americans have bought into it.

Malcolm X hurled a challenge at black Christians that we did not pay close enough attention to.

For sure, Jesus is real--I know that. But unfortunately black Americans did not have someone like Roger Williams who told the Indians, "Jesus is real, but white men just want to steal your land--so don't join their churches."

Jesus is real, but we should have been paying attention to Malcolm X about how white people did church.

When people can commit a lynching--torture a man, burn his body, hang the burning and dying body from a tree, clip off fingers and toes as souvenirs--and have a neighborhood picnic under the smoldering body--and then all go to church the next day...those people are doing church hella wrong.

We should have stood back and recognized that the way WASPs do church is and has been rotten for centuries, and we should have gone back to the drawing board.

We can look, for example, at how the WASP way of doing church views the poor in a different light from the way scripture views the poor. The WASP way views the poor as suspect, probably sinful, and undoubtedly deserving to be poor. Scripture recognizes that that the system of human government exploits people and keeps people poor, regardless how hard they work.

The WASP concept of doing church is based on being the religion of the dominant culture in bed with the government. That is certainly not the way Jesus and His apostles set it up. It was set up to be a minority culture in tension with the whatever human culture and government was dominant. Roger Williams pointed out that dichotomy 'way back in 1644.

It's not as though the western mode of Christianity is the only one around, and certainly such issues as the toleration of slavery are major clues that it's not the best one around.

But even today, most black Americans follow a way of doing church that merely apes the the WASP concept that we ought to know is rotten. To the extent that blacks are homophobic is an example of the extent to which we still ape the WASP concept of church.
So true but in how many ways does it seem we can't seem to shake the ignorance from days gone by that so many millions of us still perpetuate to this day? Sometimes I'm truly amazed how we continue to adhere to nonsense of all sorts, and to such an extent. You'd think we'd be well beyond most of the ignorance that still divides so many people for reasons well beyond sound reason and logic, but hey, I guess we're only human after all...
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Old 06-22-2019, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Floribama
14,962 posts, read 31,357,878 times
Reputation: 13766
As a gay man living in the Deep South, I think blacks and whites are equally homophobic, the difference is that whites have learned to hide it a little better in recent years, while many blacks will outright show their disgust to your face.
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Old 06-22-2019, 01:13 PM
 
4,591 posts, read 2,921,009 times
Reputation: 1513
it's almost like they went out and listened to every rap song........ever.
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