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Old 06-19-2019, 03:28 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
11,630 posts, read 3,981,658 times
Reputation: 7207

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The truth is China really doesn't care, and won't be dictated to, and I don't see the rest of the world doing anything much. The Huawei google ban may cause China some problems, as might US tariffs, but this is a country that has been through far worse and these are just minor irritations in the grand scheme of things, and in terms of the grand scheme of things, China is prepared to play the long game.

As for current events China is a centrally controlled dictatorship, and will do it's best to crush any dissent, including that in Hong Kong.

Whilst in terms of Chinese global infrastructure projects, they have largely been succesful and Chna now has ownership and influence across the globe, including in the west.

Last edited by Brave New World; 06-19-2019 at 04:22 AM..
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:10 AM
 
4,685 posts, read 3,614,137 times
Reputation: 7382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
The truth is China really doesn't care, and won't be dictated to, and I don't see the rest of the world doing anything much. The Huawei google ban may cause China some problems, as might US tariffs, but this is a country that has been through far worse and these are just minor irritations in the grand scheme of things, and in terms of the grand scheme of things, China is prepared to play the long game.

As for current events China is a centrally controlled dictatorship, and will do it's best to crush ant dissent, including that in Hong Kong.

Whilst in terms of Chinese global infrastructure projects, they have largely been succesful and Chna now has ownership and influence across the globe, including in the west.
What aren’t there more rational and sane and fair assessments like yours aro7nd Why ate haters and war mongering idiotic nationalists the dominant voices in the us?
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:15 AM
 
4,685 posts, read 3,614,137 times
Reputation: 7382
Quote:
Originally Posted by bergun View Post
So true Winter fall.

Many African nations are now aware of the high cost of doing business with the Chinese. Their loans are basically geared for failure due to the terms of the agreements for Chinese cash/goods/investments. Basically, the Chinese will claim a percentage of their natural resources when these nations default on these loans.

If you think nations trust the Chinese more than the Americans, you need to put all the Trump hating aside and review the facts... Ask Vietnam, the Philippines and most of Southeast Asia if they trust the Chinese. The answer is NO!! Vietnam is now buying American defensive/offensive weapon systems... Not to protect themselves from the Americans, but from the Chinese.

Most of SE Asia are now rearming to secure their territories and natural resources... Not from the evil Americans, but from China and her claiming territories that are thousands of miles away from the shores of China... Even the UN's World Court stated that China was in violation of international law by making false claims to most of the South China Sea.

If you think that this is only faulty "Imperialistic" American thinking, you are wrong... Even the Japanese are rearming themselves after the Chinese place an Air Defense Identification Zone over an island that belongs to Japan AND testing Japanese air defenses by intruding into Japanese air space with military aircraft. The Japanese are holding their own talks with the Indians, Filipinos, South Koreans, Vietnamese and Australians about the Chinese threat.

Honestly, ask yourself and be honest, how many countries are truly allied with the Chinese?? Yes, they have North Korea, Pakistan, Bangladesh and maybe one or two more Third World countries that China conned into being their friend. BUT!!!! in a serious conflict, how many of these countries do you think will truly side with China? Not too many since they will be too busy trying to shimmy away from the Chinese and buddy-up with the Americans.

As for the Hong Kong crisis, they're lucky that the Chinese government are too busy watching Trump since he's not falling for false Chinese trade agreements/promise, but holding them accountable for their actions... By threatening them with more tariffs on Chinese goods coming into the US... This is hurting the Chinese economy far more than its hurting the US economy... And they know this. Due to this, they don't know how Trump would react to a "Chinese Military Peace Keeping Force" seizing all of Hong Kong by force since Trump isn't acting like past American Presidents.

So!! Many think Trump is crazy, but more crazy like a fox in a hen house. That alone worries the Chinese since they're not looking for an all-out military conflict or a total economic war with the United States.

I know that the main stream media has convinced many "low information" voters that Trump is a puppet of the Russian, but the truth is the Russians are not too happy with Trump and just like the Chinese, hoping that he's vote out of office in 2020. The main reason why "I" voted for Trump was that both the Democrats and most every Republicans hated him and the truth be told, the Russians and Chinese hate him as well.

The fact that you can keep a straight facing while complaining about how the Chinese are “claiming” territories thousands of miles away from China as a valid complaint against China, when the us has territories and bases around the world, and even the uk which went to war to defend a set of falklands islands so far away from its shore just to keep them.....is ridiculous. One of the greatest talent of hypocrites is their ability to carry on a double standard with a straight face. Just amazing.

If you want to ask the vietnamese or the Filipinos, how about asking the Argentines too ? Or the Syrians, or the Iraqis how they feel about the so called benevolent and peace loving west led by the us and uk? You can smell that stink of hypocrisy from miles away.
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Panama City, FL
3,139 posts, read 939,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
The fact that you can keep a straight facing while complaining about how the Chinese are “claiming” territories thousands of miles away from China as a valid complaint against China, when the us has territories and bases around the world, and even the uk which went to war to defend a set of falklands islands so far away from its shore just to keep them.....is ridiculous. One of the greatest talent of hypocrites is their ability to carry on a double standard with a straight face. Just amazing.

If you want to ask the vietnamese or the Filipinos, how about asking the Argentines too ? Or the Syrians, or the Iraqis how they feel about the so called benevolent and peace loving west led by the us and uk? You can smell that stink of hypocrisy from miles away.
Another reasoned and valid point. Come, let us REASON together.
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:06 PM
 
1,958 posts, read 2,634,139 times
Reputation: 1906
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkcarguy View Post
Is it corporate America, or Government? I would believe that past administrations (Reagan, Bush) sold us out as puppets for corporate America. 15 years ago when I was in importing I was looking at the lopsided Tariff schedule and going WTH?

Tariff's can be changed, and are up to government to set to "balance" trade.
I believe it is mainly corporate America but certainly Reagan and Bush
were selling us all down the Chinese river.
All for the dollar is what rules the day in America , it has always been that way and
the world certainly knows this to be true, hence the bad reputation America has out in the world.
No secret that what drives America is money , anything to climb to the top.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
838 posts, read 1,107,808 times
Reputation: 970
Quote:
Originally Posted by movedtothecoast View Post
I believe it is mainly corporate America but certainly Reagan and Bush
were selling us all down the Chinese river.
All for the dollar is what rules the day in America , it has always been that way and
the world certainly knows this to be true, hence the bad reputation America has out in the world.
No secret that what drives America is money , anything to climb to the top.
While large corporations surely lined politicians pockets to make things happen, many companies just run the numbers and follow suit because they have to. For example you're a company producing a widget and competing against 6 other companies producing the same widget. In the US the government wanted to tax your company 35%, the workers union wants $50 an hour, and the EPA wants to shut down your factory because the noise it emits irritates the stripped back cricket during mating season. Your sales are low because your widget is too expensive, and American consumers are too dumb to see that even though your widget lasts 3x as long it's twice the price so they buy the Chinese one instead.
On the other side of the ocean in China they'll work for a few bucks a day, live in wire cages 10 to an apartment, in foggy smog from coal powered electric plants, in a factory the Chinese government built with OUR money, and then ship it half way around the world for a fraction of the price. The US consumer is happy to buy it at half price despite it being poorer quality. US companies simply can't complete. With the addition of 25% tariffs, combined with corporate tax cuts, it makes the numbers work for some commodities and we can see manufacturing and jobs come back to the US.
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:49 PM
 
40,114 posts, read 24,358,043 times
Reputation: 12624
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkcarguy View Post
While large corporations surely lined politicians pockets to make things happen, many companies just run the numbers and follow suit because they have to. For example you're a company producing a widget and competing against 6 other companies producing the same widget. In the US the government wanted to tax your company 35%, the workers union wants $50 an hour, and the EPA wants to shut down your factory because the noise it emits irritates the stripped back cricket during mating season. Your sales are low because your widget is too expensive, and American consumers are too dumb to see that even though your widget lasts 3x as long it's twice the price so they buy the Chinese one instead.
On the other side of the ocean in China they'll work for a few bucks a day, live in wire cages 10 to an apartment, in foggy smog from coal powered electric plants, in a factory the Chinese government built with OUR money, and then ship it half way around the world for a fraction of the price. The US consumer is happy to buy it at half price despite it being poorer quality. US companies simply can't complete. With the addition of 25% tariffs, combined with corporate tax cuts, it makes the numbers work for some commodities and we can see manufacturing and jobs come back to the US.
The Chinese have comparable living conditions to Americans. They have cars. They have refrigerators and washers and dryers. They are a huge consumer market.
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Old 06-20-2019, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
33,289 posts, read 20,103,715 times
Reputation: 12995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
The truth is China really doesn't care, and won't be dictated to, and I don't see the rest of the world doing anything much. The Huawei google ban may cause China some problems, as might US tariffs, but this is a country that has been through far worse and these are just minor irritations in the grand scheme of things, and in terms of the grand scheme of things, China is prepared to play the long game.

As for current events China is a centrally controlled dictatorship, and will do it's best to crush any dissent, including that in Hong Kong.

Whilst in terms of Chinese global infrastructure projects, they have largely been succesful and Chna now has ownership and influence across the globe, including in the west.
yeah, I agree with this.

They do what they "FEEL" like doing, it has always been the case.
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Murrica
3,148 posts, read 1,798,009 times
Reputation: 2144
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
The Chinese have comparable living conditions to Americans. They have cars. They have refrigerators and washers and dryers. They are a huge consumer market.
Some. Certainly not all. Not even close.
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Old 06-21-2019, 02:22 PM
Status: "think locally, act yokelly." (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,302 posts, read 583,870 times
Reputation: 986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Yes, what is happening in Hong Kong is a great thing. The people should keep going, its about much more than this bill.
I agree and is vastly under-reported. It may turn out that we are watching a major turn of history. People forget that less than 50 years ago, China was in impoverished nation whose only exports to the US were table tennis balls and various canned foods. History can turn quickly.

Thanks to you for a good thread.
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