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Old 06-18-2019, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,587 posts, read 2,647,644 times
Reputation: 2548

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
You all have grossly underestimated China.
Maybe (I don't think so). But so what, they have destroyed rural communities, empowered corporations to restrict our freedoms, enslaved their Muslim population, harvest organs, and destroy the environment.

It is a worthy fight much like the Nazis represented.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:00 AM
 
78,849 posts, read 33,532,796 times
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Hong Kong and China are not really interchangable. Yes they are quasi connected but it is a very different place than China proper.

Yes, people are getting tired of the "haves" demanding more from the "have nots". That is what the protests are over. They aren't over China.

Hong Kong has it's own monetary system, laws and even Olympic teams. China can't even arrest someone in Hong Kong without an international arrest warrant.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,587 posts, read 2,647,644 times
Reputation: 2548
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Hong Kong and China are not really interchangable. Yes they are quasi connected but it is a very different place than China proper.

Yes, people are getting tired of the "haves" demanding more from the "have nots". That is what the protests are over. They aren't over China.

Hong Kong has it's own monetary system, laws and even Olympic teams. China can't even arrest someone in Hong Kong without an international arrest warrant.
Beijing owns Hong Kong and they have a plan to integrate the two systems.

They want to make people in Hong Kong complacent with wealth and cheap goods the pass bills under the radar until the totalitarian government can keep the people under their thumb.

The fact that the people of Hong Kong are unifying against this is brilliant, but they can't let go even if the bill is dropped entirely.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:09 AM
 
40,106 posts, read 24,345,620 times
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China has been diligently working with numerous countries in Africa to build trade relationships. It has also been working with South American countries, although the instability in South America has made its efforts less effective. It also has support among other Asian countries. And as a neighbor of Russia, Putin has more interest in positive relations with them, than with the United States. As the United States has pulled back from treaties and old alliances, China has made efforts to fill that void, and those efforts have not been futile. The world isn't unifying against China at all. While Hong Kong is a touchy subject for China, and the protests have drawn the world's attention, China will handle the matter delicately. Much more delicately than it handles matters in its western territories, where the world doesn't pay as much attention.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,587 posts, read 2,647,644 times
Reputation: 2548
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
China has been diligently working with numerous countries in Africa to build trade relationships. It has also been working with South American countries, although the instability in South America has made its efforts less effective. It also has support among other Asian countries. And as a neighbor of Russia, Putin has more interest in positive relations with them, than with the United States. As the United States has pulled back from treaties and old alliances, China has made efforts to fill that void, and those efforts have not been futile. The world isn't unifying against China at all. While Hong Kong is a touchy subject for China, and the protests have drawn the world's attention, China will handle the matter delicately. Much more delicately than it handles matters in its western territories, where the world doesn't pay as much attention.
Russia is using China and the African people don't trust Chinese investments that are meant to subjugate the population.
The corrupt governments just do it for extortion purposes. This narrative that China is filling some void left behind by the US is nonsense. Overall Trump has been a typical US leader.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:18 AM
 
16,758 posts, read 9,106,172 times
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It will likely take a world effort.

China has built in advantages.

For starters...China has a president for life who can wait out Trump and assume that the odds are that the next US president will go back to business as usual.

The UN and world leadership is generally weak and will not enforce China to adhere to environmental regulations that they agreed to, intellectual property rights, or liberty for their citizens.

China can beat the costs of our labor, because we have costlier environmental regulations, higher business taxes, more expensive labor, etc...while these things are good - in some areas they undermine American manufacturing.

Perhaps automation and 3-D printing will reduce some of these advantages China has.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
826 posts, read 1,105,707 times
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China's goal is to secure in excess of 90% of the worlds manufacturing. Because China is communist and the government owns the land and buildings, it's considered "investment" for the government to basically setup manufacturing plants for....whatever, funded by the Trillions of dollars we send them because we buy so much more Chinese stuff. In the US, this is known as "subsidizing".
Think how cheap we could build cars in the US, if our government was raking in trillions of $$$ and would pay for the plants and all we had to do was man them?

Glad to see the world is waking up.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:23 AM
 
40,106 posts, read 24,345,620 times
Reputation: 12619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Russia is using China and the African people don't trust Chinese investments that are meant to subjugate the population.
The corrupt governments just do it for extortion purposes. This narrative that China is filling some void left behind by the US is nonsense. Overall Trump has been a typical US leader.
The Chinese investments are building trust. China has made major inroads in the African markets. And China is filling a void. You can dismiss that "narrative" all you want, but the truth is that President Trump has pulled the United States out of treaties, and has threatened to pull the United States even further back, which leaves some of the countries we deal with unsure of the future. And they hedge their bets by dealing with China and other countries regarding trade and regarding diplomatic efforts. Our State Department has been short-staffed since Trump took office, and the mixed signals that Trump sends don't help matters.

China's problems with Hong Kong need to be handled delicately, to be sure. But China has shown it's willing to do that, since Hong Kong reverted to China. China also has some serious problems economically, that the government has been addressing. But China has been building global relationships. And your assertion that the world is unifying against China is erroneous.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,587 posts, read 2,647,644 times
Reputation: 2548
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,587 posts, read 2,647,644 times
Reputation: 2548
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
It will likely take a world effort.

China has built in advantages.

For starters...China has a president for life who can wait out Trump and assume that the odds are that the next US president will go back to business as usual.

The UN and world leadership is generally weak and will not enforce China to adhere to environmental regulations that they agreed to, intellectual property rights, or liberty for their citizens.

China can beat the costs of our labor, because we have costlier environmental regulations, higher business taxes, more expensive labor, etc...while these things are good - in some areas they undermine American manufacturing.

Perhaps automation and 3-D printing will reduce some of these advantages China has.
Americans should stop buying cheap goods manufactured in China. Our leaders from Clinton to reagan sold us a bill of false goods saying if we give up light manufacturing and remove jobs from small communities we will get cheap goods from China and it will make us happy.

We don't all need washing machines, smart phones, or cars. We can use simpler methods and buy more expensive goods made in America if it means keep communities from having all their jobs being off-shored and creating addiction in its place.

Not everyone needs to move to the cities to work for some lifeless corporations, China is the source of corporate Americas betrayal.

We can handle it, DC politicians are lying when they say we need China.
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