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Old 06-19-2019, 07:53 AM
 
12,842 posts, read 4,642,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
That doesn't impact rich liberals very much to be of concern.

The poor will get their subsidies.

Who cares about the middle class.
But the GOP are passionate supporters of means testing as well.

Its not a "liberal" thing. Means testing is despised by labor unions and real progressives for a good reason, it creates polarization and division in society. Thats why a labor-backed FDR would never means test Social Security for example. Everyone pays into the system and everyone benefits. Everyone has skin in the game. Thats how popular programs are created. By means testing and giving stuff to the poor as charity from the taxpayers, it will naturally cause tax revolts which is the whole point behind the strategy. So if you're supportive of tax revolts, you should support means testing to create divisions in society between the classes.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:55 AM
 
29,387 posts, read 15,424,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
But the GOP are passionate supporters of means testing as well.

Its not a "liberal" thing. Means testing is despised by labor unions and real progressives for a good reason, it creates polarization and division in society. Thats why a labor-backed FDR would never means test Social Security for example. Everyone pays into the system and everyone benefits. Everyone has skin in the game. Thats how popular programs are created. By means testing and giving stuff to the poor as charity from the taxpayers, it will naturally cause tax revolts which is the whole point behind the strategy. So if you're supportive of tax revolts, you should support means testing to create divisions in society between the classes.
Many GOP members have very liberal ideas.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:56 AM
 
12,842 posts, read 4,642,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Many GOP members have very liberal ideas.
Supporting tax revolts and deep cuts in taxes is not a liberal idea. Its what they are instructed to do by their big money donors. Thats why they're such passionate supporters of means testing in the first place. Creating popular programs for the middle class where everyone has skin in the game is a disaster for the ruling class. Everyone who supports tax revolts will support means testing any program to make it polarizing and unpopular among large sections of the population.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:58 AM
 
29,387 posts, read 15,424,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Supporting tax revolts and deep cuts in taxes is not a liberal idea. Its what they are instructed to do by their big money donors.
Dep tax cuts are conservative and libertarian ideas based upon common sense and responsibility.

The belief that you are entitled to take from others is a liberal idea.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:00 AM
 
12,842 posts, read 4,642,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Dep tax cuts are conservative and libertarian ideas
Exactly. Which is why means testing is the way they create the popular support to do it. Means testing is deeply reactionary and conservative, not liberal.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:02 AM
 
51,901 posts, read 41,783,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
Imagine what the electric bills of the future will look like..
Covered that in a thread about California electric rates going up >20% this year (as much as 80% for some). Those costs DO NOT reflects costs related to the fires either.

They basically cited how they had to buy out of state power to stave off blackouts and meet clean energy initiatives.

There is a hard collision coming between idealism and reality for some states on that topic.

P.S. I'm not even against clean energy, renewables, but you have politicians making decisions to get votes. Votes from people that do not understand those things and potential repercussions.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:04 AM
 
39,454 posts, read 40,770,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Everyone pays into the system and everyone benefits.

If you aren't collecting those taxes to begin with, everyone benefits. AND they can decide on their own how to use those funds to benefit themselves.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:05 AM
 
29,387 posts, read 15,424,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Exactly. Which is why means testing is the way they create the popular support to do it. Means testing is deeply reactionary and conservative, not liberal.
Means testing is only necessary when liberals are buying votes with other people's money.

Take away the tax schemes used to buy votes, and it's not necessary.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:07 AM
 
709 posts, read 127,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
So basically, red states are trying to become like third world countries relying on poor environmental protection, no unions and low wages in a race to the bottom for both the worker and the environment?

How does that help Joe Sixpack? Some states have to stand up to the power of corporate America even if the ruling class threatens revolt.
so backwards. 3rd world places are usually like that because of the govt not because of a lack of govt.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:09 AM
 
Location: New Orleans, La. USA
5,924 posts, read 2,832,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoodTheBadTheUgly View Post
Prediction you’re going to see an exodus of business leaving NY. NY like Calif will end up like a third world state.


https://www.eenews.net/stories/1060616261
There will also be a increase of businesses in New York. Your source states "The new Climate Action Council would be required to issue recommendations on how to install 6 gigawatts of distributed solar by 2025, 9 GW of offshore wind by 2035 and 3 GW of energy storage by 2030."

NY's massive use of solar power will create alternative energy businesses involving invention, innovation, production, and services.

Jobs in the solar power are increasing faster than oil, coal, and gas jobs combined, and jobs in wind power increased by 20% in 2016 alone. And NY's massive investment will make it a business hub of the solar and wind power industries.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmc.../#4782bd342800
https://www.awea.org/resources/news/...-percent-in-20


In America "Renewable Energy Is Creating Jobs 12 Times Faster Than the Rest of the Economy", and worldwide renewable energy jobs are growing by over 5% every year.
Renewable Energy Industry Creates Jobs 12 Times Faster Than Rest of US | Fortune
https://www.irena.org/publications/2...al-Review-2018

NY "has charted a path that would transform it into a top-tier global storage market by 2025" and "Energy storage companies now can apply for $280 million in incentives allocated by New York’s state government."

NY's massive investment in renewable energy will make it a hub of invention, innovation, production, and services in a ever growing worldwide market.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...8-gw#gs.ji43op
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