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Old 04-28-2019, 04:43 PM
 
9,948 posts, read 6,879,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
Can you please explain how this would differ from years of welfare, Section 8, food stamps, etc?

Those programs are NOT designed specifically to undo the particular situation that African Americans are in, in America, that is the result of the "peculiar institution" that their ancestors endured. Those programs are social safety nets.....not a ladder to success.
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Old 04-28-2019, 05:32 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
8,484 posts, read 12,445,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
It is a fight for the primaries right now, and some are still under the impression primary votes matter.

Democrats do not need to pander to blacks, they vote Democrat anyway, and as a group, are too small to significantly influence the election due to not only size, but location. However, for the primaries, they do have influence, even though 2016 and 2010 showed it does not matter, the DNC will choose who they want anyway.
This is EXACTLY whats wrong with Dems. They assume blacks will vote straight party.

Time for an awakening.
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Old 04-28-2019, 05:41 PM
 
15,517 posts, read 13,509,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro69 View Post
This is EXACTLY whats wrong with Dems. They assume blacks will vote straight party.

Time for an awakening.
Well, it pretty much is a fact, blacks do vote straight Democrat.

When was the last time a Republican for president got the majority of black votes? Never. When even 50%? Never. What was the highest percent? 39% in 1956. Since 1956, it has been an average of 12%, and since 2000, it has been 6%.
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Old 04-28-2019, 07:02 PM
 
2,833 posts, read 1,016,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
No one is going to change 99% of peoples minds on any topic, especially the topic of reparations. Reparations will NEVER happen, as I am sure most people know. However, its the CONVERSATION that is really the goal.

Here is the question America must answer. "What if"? What if blacks were on par economically with whites, what would it mean for America as a whole?


# Higher GDP
  • More consumption by blacks creating a multiplier and increased revenues to business, increased hiring due to increased demand, increased taxes paid by blacks.
# Less Welfare payments
  • A much lower black poverty rate leads to less blacks on public assistance and less tax payer burden to make transfer payments to the poor.
# Less Crime
  • The high violent crime rate in the black community comes from the poor black population and the black rate of poverty is 3 times the rate of whites. Thus, reducing the black poverty rate to the level of white rates of poverty will result in big drop in violent crime, a reduction in the prison population and its cost to the taxpayers, reduction of police and court cost, etc.
# Improved global image of the US
  • With black economic parity, the US will for the first time be able to stand before the world and present itself proudly as a truly healed nation that can finally live up to its grand pronouncements.


Call it what you want, but a targeted effort to improve the condition of African Americans seems like a win for the nation as a whole. Why would the nation not value, want and seek that? This aspect is never even considered. Instead, reparations is just seen as a "check" to individuals. Who said that?

In my opinion, its an indictment against America that it does not want or seek to do this.....regardless of what you call it. I feel the reason is that America sees black people as inherently inferior. You only invest in something that you believe that has a chance of producing a return on investment, otherwise you just see it as throwing money away. If you had a child who demonstrated a lack of coordination and athletic ability and you felt that you and your spouse, their parents, never had athletic ability, would you invest in athletic training for your him in hope he could one day get a college scholarships for athletics? No, not if you thought he just did not have the "genes" for it. You would think no amount of training would overcome his gene limitations. That is how America treats, if not sees, its black population. Blacks don't have the "genes" to be equal with whites.

America does not believe in the mental abilities of black people, whether it be intellectual or emotional. They see the black condition of today to be born from the NATURE of blacks, not the racist nurturing of this society over the centuries. Some will use the euphemism of culture because calling the culture of blacks inferior is a means of insulating one from being called a racist for directly calling the race inferior. However, culture is as influenced by oppression as is economics.

America will in no way target and invest in the collective black community with the goal of economic equality due to the fact that America is essentially still a racist nation.....just not as racist as it used to be.


It's like you are a basketball player who is really good with doing everything with your right hand, but under utilizes the capacity of the left hand. Is it discrimination against the right hand to start focusing effort and energies to improve the ability of the left hand? Would it not make the PERSON a better player of if they could use their left hand as well or nearly as well as the right hand? America has an underutilized black population that could make AMERICA better if it targeted blacks for improvement. However, America refuses to look at it that way. The question is "why"?
I hesitate to join this conversation but I consider you to be one of the few around here who tries to have reasoned discourse with those who disagree with you.

What possible form could reparations take other than writing big checks to people? We already have affirmative action that has lifted many into the middle class and govt. purchasing set asides that have fostered many minority owned businesses. We already throw more money at urban schools than many private schools cost. The Community Reinvestment Act closely monitors banks to preclude the redlining that used to hurt minority communities.

The real question is what would it take to change the underlying culture of our urban minority underclass. I grew up poor in a large family. My father didn't finish 8th grade. My mother didn't finish 10th. She was 16 and he was 20 when they got married but along the way they decided their kids would do better than they did. Woe to the kid in my family that brought home a C on their report card or who got detention. The non-negotiable rule was when you came home from school you immediately changed out of your "school clothes" and did your homework. No playing or anything else until the home work was done. My mother never missed a PTA meeting for the 25 years she had at least one kid in the local elementary school. We went to church every Sunday and Holy Day and went to catechism class as well. We went to the library regularly and the one luxury we could freely indulge in was buying those cheap paperback books at the book fairs the school had periodically. The results? All 6 finished high school, 5 graduated college, 2 got MBA's, one a PhD and one a JD. None of us ever got into any kind of trouble. Of my 11 1st cousins who lived in my neighborhood, 5 never finished high school and only 1 went to college. Why the difference? Their parenting was not what my siblings and I got. I will add that despite being a top student in a large high school, when I went to the guidance counselor for college advice (there not being anyone in the family or neighborhood who had gone to college other than my older brother, me being the 2nd born), he told me "kids from my neighborhood don't go to college, they look for a factory job." I then figured it out on my own.

Is perhaps the difference between my parents and the parents in urban underclass neighborhoods that my parents knew if they ran a tight ship maintaining high expectations for their kids that we'd achieve a middle class status, or better as some of us did? If so, then just writing a big check isn't going to solve the problem. If I am right, why don't poor minority parents in our cities know that their kids can succeed too if only they maintain the kinds of expectations and involvement that my parents did? If there are reparations it needs to be aimed at addressing what I see as a cultural issue that accepts educational and economic under performance. I haven't a clue as to how to do that.
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Old 04-28-2019, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,491 posts, read 11,581,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker53 View Post
I hesitate to join this conversation but I consider you to be one of the few around here who tries to have reasoned discourse with those who disagree with you.

What possible form could reparations take other than writing big checks to people? We already have affirmative action that has lifted many into the middle class and govt. purchasing set asides that have fostered many minority owned businesses. We already throw more money at urban schools than many private schools cost. The Community Reinvestment Act closely monitors banks to preclude the redlining that used to hurt minority communities.

The real question is what would it take to change the underlying culture of our urban minority underclass. I grew up poor in a large family. My father didn't finish 8th grade. My mother didn't finish 10th. She was 16 and he was 20 when they got married but along the way they decided their kids would do better than they did. Woe to the kid in my family that brought home a C on their report card or who got detention. The non-negotiable rule was when you came home from school you immediately changed out of your "school clothes" and did your homework. No playing or anything else until the home work was done. My mother never missed a PTA meeting for the 25 years she had at least one kid in the local elementary school. We went to church every Sunday and Holy Day and went to catechism class as well. We went to the library regularly and the one luxury we could freely indulge in was buying those cheap paperback books at the book fairs the school had periodically. The results? All 6 finished high school, 5 graduated college, 2 got MBA's, one a PhD and one a JD. None of us ever got into any kind of trouble. Of my 11 1st cousins who lived in my neighborhood, 5 never finished high school and only 1 went to college. Why the difference? Their parenting was not what my siblings and I got. I will add that despite being a top student in a large high school, when I went to the guidance counselor for college advice (there not being anyone in the family or neighborhood who had gone to college other than my older brother, me being the 2nd born), he told me "kids from my neighborhood don't go to college, they look for a factory job." I then figured it out on my own.

Is perhaps the difference between my parents and the parents in urban underclass neighborhoods that my parents knew if they ran a tight ship maintaining high expectations for their kids that we'd achieve a middle class status, or better as some of us did? If so, then just writing a big check isn't going to solve the problem. If I am right, why don't poor minority parents in our cities know that their kids can succeed too if only they maintain the kinds of expectations and involvement that my parents did? If there are reparations it needs to be aimed at addressing what I see as a cultural issue that accepts educational and economic under performance. I haven't a clue as to how to do that.
Ogbu’s involuntary minorities theory comes to mind.


The best thing we could do for blacks and other impoverished groups is end the drug war.
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Old 04-28-2019, 07:48 PM
 
6,740 posts, read 6,544,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Yep, Stanford grad/football academic all conference........
Honors at Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar..........
Yale law grad...............

dumber than a rock this guy.
In other words he should be smart enough to know it's a horrid idea.
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Old 04-29-2019, 06:13 AM
 
9,948 posts, read 6,879,820 times
Reputation: 4221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker53 View Post
I hesitate to join this conversation but I consider you to be one of the few around here who tries to have reasoned discourse with those who disagree with you.

What possible form could reparations take other than writing big checks to people? We already have affirmative action that has lifted many into the middle class and govt. purchasing set asides that have fostered many minority owned businesses. We already throw more money at urban schools than many private schools cost. The Community Reinvestment Act closely monitors banks to preclude the redlining that used to hurt minority communities.

The real question is what would it take to change the underlying culture of our urban minority underclass. I grew up poor in a large family. My father didn't finish 8th grade. My mother didn't finish 10th. She was 16 and he was 20 when they got married but along the way they decided their kids would do better than they did. Woe to the kid in my family that brought home a C on their report card or who got detention. The non-negotiable rule was when you came home from school you immediately changed out of your "school clothes" and did your homework. No playing or anything else until the home work was done. My mother never missed a PTA meeting for the 25 years she had at least one kid in the local elementary school. We went to church every Sunday and Holy Day and went to catechism class as well. We went to the library regularly and the one luxury we could freely indulge in was buying those cheap paperback books at the book fairs the school had periodically. The results? All 6 finished high school, 5 graduated college, 2 got MBA's, one a PhD and one a JD. None of us ever got into any kind of trouble. Of my 11 1st cousins who lived in my neighborhood, 5 never finished high school and only 1 went to college. Why the difference? Their parenting was not what my siblings and I got. I will add that despite being a top student in a large high school, when I went to the guidance counselor for college advice (there not being anyone in the family or neighborhood who had gone to college other than my older brother, me being the 2nd born), he told me "kids from my neighborhood don't go to college, they look for a factory job." I then figured it out on my own.

Is perhaps the difference between my parents and the parents in urban underclass neighborhoods that my parents knew if they ran a tight ship maintaining high expectations for their kids that we'd achieve a middle class status, or better as some of us did? If so, then just writing a big check isn't going to solve the problem. If I am right, why don't poor minority parents in our cities know that their kids can succeed too if only they maintain the kinds of expectations and involvement that my parents did? If there are reparations it needs to be aimed at addressing what I see as a cultural issue that accepts educational and economic under performance. I haven't a clue as to how to do that.

Well....nothing is going to change without financing. When I say check, I am talking about a check written for each black family or individual. That is how most people see reparations......every black descendant of Americans enslaved getting a personal check. That would not be wise on so many levels, and there are other means besides a check in every individual.



That having been said, psychologist need to examine how centuries of slavery and racial oppression has impacted African Americans. You need to bring in, to the degree that its possible, unbiased trained professional in behavioral and social science. Rarely do you see psychologist solicited to help understand or explain black behavior and culture. What did living under a system of white supremacy, for over 3 centuries, do to the mindset of black people, who were relegated to be treated as and seen, under the system, as the most inferior of the races?



The legacy of racial oppression is accrued in the culture of African Americans. The reason that African immigrants can come to America and do so much better than African Americans is due to the fact that their culture has not been infected by racial oppression to the degree that descendants of enslaved Americans have. Hence, reparations could be mostly money spent on social engineering a more self confident culture among African Americans. How you do that is not in my pay grade to decide, but it certainly is not going to happen by suggestion. It will require monies and most importantly, TARGETED effort aimed specifically at African Americans, not a one size fits all program for women, LGBTQ, minorities and whales. Blacks were TARGETED into this situation and hence has to be, as specifically, TARGETED out of the situation.


Again....all that having been said. America will not invest in what it feels is an inferior race of people. Note how the west invest differently in Asia....as opposed to Africa. They invest in Asia....and give handout to Africa, with relatively little Foreign Direct Investment. Africans are for aid.....Asians are for investment. It's the same black inferiority mindset.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; 04-29-2019 at 06:27 AM..
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Old 04-29-2019, 06:40 AM
 
2,455 posts, read 859,545 times
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150 years after the Civil War, we still have remnants of institutionalized racism in this country, and African Americans still feel the effects of slavery and the Jim Crow era that followed it. We should do what we can to correct those situations wherever they exist.

However, I fail to see how paying reparations would accomplish that. In fact it may have the opposite effect, with whites saying "there, we paid you some money, now shut up and quit whining about racism". To actually confront racism is harder than just paying someone off, but ultimately what must be done.
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Old 04-29-2019, 07:13 AM
 
9,948 posts, read 6,879,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
150 years after the Civil War, we still have remnants of institutionalized racism in this country, and African Americans still feel the effects of slavery and the Jim Crow era that followed it. We should do what we can to correct those situations wherever they exist.

However, I fail to see how paying reparations would accomplish that. In fact it may have the opposite effect, with whites saying "there, we paid you some money, now shut up and quit whining about racism". To actually confront racism is harder than just paying someone off, but ultimately what must be done.

Most certainly if reparations were paid....the result would be violence in the streets from angry whites, more racial discrimination against blacks, etc, etc. It would set blacks BACK, in terms of racial progress. It would be akin to a person who had been raped taking the rapist to court and the rapist then wanting to put a hit out on the victim so they can't testify. If the person raped would just live with what happened, her and the rapist can get along just fine from the eyes of the rapist. However, soon as the she tried to hold the rapist accountable, there will be a backlash.
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Old 04-29-2019, 07:23 AM
 
26,543 posts, read 19,016,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Most certainly if reparations were paid....the result would be violence in the streets from angry whites, more racial discrimination against blacks, etc, etc. It would set blacks BACK, in terms of racial progress. It would be akin to a person who had been raped taking the rapist to court and the rapist then wanting to put a hit out on the victim so they can't testify. If the person raped would just live with what happened, her and the rapist can get along just fine from the eyes of the rapist. However, soon as the she tried to hold the rapist accountable, there will be a backlash.
yeah... just like that, except that in this comparison the 'rapist' is completely innocent of raping anyone.
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