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Old 04-29-2019, 03:36 PM
 
26,543 posts, read 19,016,439 times
Reputation: 14203

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Most certainly if reparations were paid....the result would be violence in the streets from angry whites, more racial discrimination against blacks, etc, etc. It would set blacks BACK, in terms of racial progress. It would be akin to a person who had been raped taking the rapist to court and the rapist then wanting to put a hit out on the victim so they can't testify. If the person raped would just live with what happened, her and the rapist can get along just fine from the eyes of the rapist. However, soon as the she tried to hold the rapist accountable, there will be a backlash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
yeah... just like that, except that in this comparison the 'rapist' is completely innocent of raping anyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
I am talking about racist people rioting. The people most upset will be the racist. Hence, reparations will create a backlash among racist. The analogy was between rapist and racist.
no you weren't. you were talking about rapists for a change, giving a particularly ridiculous analogy involving one.

understandable error for someone who spends so much time talking about racists, though.
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Old 04-29-2019, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY
35,419 posts, read 10,475,434 times
Reputation: 33442
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Recently, Cory Booker introduce(d) Senate bill on slavery reparations

I believe that is a very bad idea. It is either a money grab, or enabling social pathologies such as unwed teen pregnancies, dropping out of school and society, and drug abuse.

Historical grievances are many and they run deep. The Blacks, the Mormons, the Mennonites and the Jews have a long history of being persecuted. The Ku Klux Klan (the "Klan") terrorized black people, Catholics and Jews in the second half of the 19th Century and intermittently through the 20th Century. Similar violence occurred via lynchings. Non-violent but very disturbing and humiliating discrimination such as "Jim Crow" laws, residential and school segregation were the order of the day. These were upheld as the law of the land in the despicable Plessy v. Fergeson Supreme Court decision, which followed from the odious Dred Scott v. Sanford decision prior to the Civil War. Corey Booker proposes reparations to living African-Americans. See Commission to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for African-Americans Act. Excerpt of Congressional preamble:

Excerpt from Duke Chronical:
African-Americans are hardly the only group to suffer serious and crippling discrimination.

As detailed in Mormon History (link) the Mormons were driven from Palmyra, New York to Pennsylvania, to Ohio, to their own city, Nauvoo, Illinois. During that era, Joseph Smith, their leader, was murdered in jail. The Mormons then relocated, finally, to Utah. Persecution of them was abundant, and vicious.

The Mennonites fared somewhat better, but have also been persecuted. See Mennonite History Is Marked by Persecution.

The Jews' history barely needs retelling. David Nirenberg’s excellent book, Anti-Judaism: The Western Tradition, reviewed here in Tablet Magazine and here in the New Republic, discusses this baleful history. He explains that much of the hatred was directed at theoretical Jews by people who had never met a real one. The Pharaohnic hatred of the Jews led them to create a parallel myth to the Exodus story, to the effect that they gave the Hebrews the boot, not the other way around. The Holocaust is extremely recent and devastating. One-third of Jews were executed. Many more fled, and lost their property in the process.

The issue of reparations is a delicate one. The Jews received some compensation, by way of West Germany making some payments to the State of Israel as a result of the Holocaust. There have been settlements in some civil actions brought by victims and their immediate descendants for property plundered by the Nazis. These payments were to actual living victims of actual living persecutors. Aside from these payments by the German government to some Jews, and the Jewish State of Israel, reparations are rarely paid, for reasons I consider to be good. Not everything in life can be fair.

I come out against reparations for historical acts. Neither the victims or the perpetrators are alive. The people who suffered slavery will never be recompensed. The people who administered the lashes will never be punished for their cruelty.

The people receiving this unearned lucre have, by and large, never experienced Jim Crow, residential or educational segregation. The people paying taxes to fund the reparations have never, by and large, done anything wrong.

In short, reparations are the punishment of the blameless for the benefit of the uninjured.

It's about slavery, not segregation.

There a no living slaves, and no living slave-owners. Period.
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Old 04-29-2019, 05:11 PM
 
9,948 posts, read 6,879,820 times
Reputation: 4221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
So you, in your great wisdom as a Christian, presume to tell us, Jewish people, why we believe we are being persecuted - and it's because we believe we are the chosen people?

News flash: NO Jew thinks we are persecuted because we are the "chosen people." (Also, tell me....since you know so much about Jews....what did G-d choose us FOR? You don't even know what that means.)
My apologies. I am not Jewish nor an authority on Jewish oppression. My only position is that regardless of what human group you put through the ringer....they will all come out flattened. If a group is not as flat, then they did not go through the same ringer. I mean, a group could have gone through a worse ringer...but have had more time to fill out again.

There is no superior race!! If you go through the same ringer as blacks.....you will end up just as flat.
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Old 04-29-2019, 05:14 PM
 
9,948 posts, read 6,879,820 times
Reputation: 4221
Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
no you weren't. you were talking about rapists for a change, giving a particularly ridiculous analogy involving one.

understandable error for someone who spends so much time talking about racists, though.
Nope. I am pretty sure I knew what I was referring to.
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Old 04-29-2019, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
9,876 posts, read 6,607,822 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowne View Post
Not mediocre. Top applicants displaced due to AA.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/04/u...admission.html
Nope. Legacy admissions from privileged and wealthy folks trump them all.
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Old 04-30-2019, 03:43 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
12,453 posts, read 4,209,786 times
Reputation: 9768
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Recently, Cory Booker introduce(d) Senate bill on slavery reparations

I believe that is a very bad idea. It is either a money grab, or enabling social pathologies such as unwed teen pregnancies, dropping out of school and society, and drug abuse.

Historical grievances are many and they run deep. The Blacks, the Mormons, the Mennonites and the Jews have a long history of being persecuted. The Ku Klux Klan (the "Klan") terrorized black people, Catholics and Jews in the second half of the 19th Century and intermittently through the 20th Century. Similar violence occurred via lynchings. Non-violent but very disturbing and humiliating discrimination such as "Jim Crow" laws, residential and school segregation were the order of the day. These were upheld as the law of the land in the despicable Plessy v. Fergeson Supreme Court decision, which followed from the odious Dred Scott v. Sanford decision prior to the Civil War. Corey Booker proposes reparations to living African-Americans. See Commission to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for African-Americans Act. Excerpt of Congressional preamble:

Excerpt from Duke Chronical:
African-Americans are hardly the only group to suffer serious and crippling discrimination.

As detailed in Mormon History (link) the Mormons were driven from Palmyra, New York to Pennsylvania, to Ohio, to their own city, Nauvoo, Illinois. During that era, Joseph Smith, their leader, was murdered in jail. The Mormons then relocated, finally, to Utah. Persecution of them was abundant, and vicious.

The Mennonites fared somewhat better, but have also been persecuted. See Mennonite History Is Marked by Persecution.

The Jews' history barely needs retelling. David Nirenberg’s excellent book, Anti-Judaism: The Western Tradition, reviewed here in Tablet Magazine and here in the New Republic, discusses this baleful history. He explains that much of the hatred was directed at theoretical Jews by people who had never met a real one. The Pharaohnic hatred of the Jews led them to create a parallel myth to the Exodus story, to the effect that they gave the Hebrews the boot, not the other way around. The Holocaust is extremely recent and devastating. One-third of Jews were executed. Many more fled, and lost their property in the process.

The issue of reparations is a delicate one. The Jews received some compensation, by way of West Germany making some payments to the State of Israel as a result of the Holocaust. There have been settlements in some civil actions brought by victims and their immediate descendants for property plundered by the Nazis. These payments were to actual living victims of actual living persecutors. Aside from these payments by the German government to some Jews, and the Jewish State of Israel, reparations are rarely paid, for reasons I consider to be good. Not everything in life can be fair.

I come out against reparations for historical acts. Neither the victims or the perpetrators are alive. The people who suffered slavery will never be recompensed. The people who administered the lashes will never be punished for their cruelty.

The people receiving this unearned lucre have, by and large, never experienced Jim Crow, residential or educational segregation. The people paying taxes to fund the reparations have never, by and large, done anything wrong.

In short, reparations are the punishment of the blameless for the benefit of the uninjured.
It's all 3 of the following, if it ever happens:
1. A money grab
2. A vote grab by the democrats
3. The end of the country as we know it
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:16 AM
 
Location: New York Area
15,846 posts, read 6,238,293 times
Reputation: 12307
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFit View Post
At what point does something stolen become rightfully owned by whomever stole it? My opinion is never, it will always be stolen. Slaves had their wages stolen from them for centuries under threat of physical brutality, just like a piece of garbage thief that steals things today under the threat of beating, stabbing, shooting someone.

The problem with reparations is figuring out who took what and who does it belong to now. With so much time gone, I don't see any way for it to be settled fairly, so I don't support reparations for that reason. Still seems obvious to me that large amounts of wealth were stolen through slavery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound View Post
Slavery reparations would be practically impossible to put into actual policy. There are far too many dynamics involved.
Affirmative action verging on quotas, which have been in place since the late 1960's, are enough. Those should be ended.
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Old 04-30-2019, 05:08 AM
 
2,363 posts, read 1,190,689 times
Reputation: 2368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Judaism is a religion, not a race. It's believers believe they are the chosen people and they believe that they are being persecuted because of that. Their history is recorded in the Bible, as well as their image and who Jesus was birth from. Hence, their view of their religion and beliefs has not been diminished by their persecution. Seeing that you are chosen by the almighty mitigates the impact of the actions of mankind and their beliefs and actions on ones psychology. This is not to say that they did not experience psychological trauma, but they had their original culture and religion in tack to guide them through it.

The foundation of who black people were was largely stripped from them, giving them no foundation to stand on against the doctrine of white supremacy and black inferiority. Jewish religion and culture largely remained intact, after their persecutions, while black religion and culture was dismantled, largely, as a result of black oppression. We were given a white Jesus to worship, were told all things good was white while all things black are bad. Hence, blacks were conditioned to see themselves as less....with nothing of value in their image....certainly not God.
We have millions of secular Jews now that don't believe in them being chosen by god. But they still keep their values of study and hard work.

The values of the blacks should be changed. And it's not going to be done by checks. Because the "reparation" money will go toward gold chains and cars with big rims. Not towards education.
If blacks want to improve their situation, stop making kids without decent father figure.
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Old 04-30-2019, 05:15 AM
 
3,316 posts, read 640,659 times
Reputation: 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Most certainly if reparations were paid....the result would be violence in the streets from angry whites, more racial discrimination against blacks, etc, etc. It would set blacks BACK, in terms of racial progress. It would be akin to a person who had been raped taking the rapist to court and the rapist then wanting to put a hit out on the victim so they can't testify. If the person raped would just live with what happened, her and the rapist can get along just fine from the eyes of the rapist. However, soon as the she tried to hold the rapist accountable, there will be a backlash.
You're missing a key point......the rapist, and the raped, are long dead.

If you want to use the rape analogy, here's a better one: About 150 years ago, some people's great-great-great grandfathers raped other people's great-great-great-grandmothers. (Not most, because most people didn't own slaves, either.) Then, six generations later, the g-g-g-children of women who lived during that time want pay-outs from the g-g-g-children of the men who lived during that time - even though the great-great-great-grandchildren of the rapists had no involvement.

Ain't happening. If you want black people to succeed, as a group, encourage them NOT to have children out-of-wedlock (major correlation between OOW rate and poverty/crime) and to take advantage of AA policies and low-income grants to get an A.A. in a vocational program at comm college, at minimum. If my father could go from dirt-poor poverty where dinner was a chicken wing and watered down soup to a graduate degree, so can black people.
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Old 04-30-2019, 05:16 AM
 
3,316 posts, read 640,659 times
Reputation: 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
It's all 3 of the following, if it ever happens:
1. A money grab
2. A vote grab by the democrats
3. The end of the country as we know it
Wish I could rep you, but I have to "spread more reps around."
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