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Old 06-25-2019, 03:42 PM
 
36,787 posts, read 16,362,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
1.) If you don’t cross the border at a point of entry you have committed a crime. The first offense is a misdemeanor and repeatable offenses are felonies. Even a US citizen who attempts this will be arrested(guess what happens if that same US citizen had a child with them?).

2.) In the US, when you get arrested, your children don’t get to come to jail with you.

3.) At the border, asylum can only be applied for at a legal point of entry.

4.) Anyone truly trying to seek asylum would cross a point of entry instead of crossing the border illegally while putting their family in danger. However, many of these people are taught to say, “But I seek Asylum,” if they are caught crossing illegally because this did get them a pass during the Obama administration. It was essentially a way to avoid getting prosecuted for the crime of illegal entry.

When a US citizen commits a crime and gets arrested they don’t get a pass because they have children so why should an immigrant attempting illegal entry?

Trump is simply enforcing an existing law.

This is a game and nothing more. This all an attempt to influence US citizens’ opinions by playing with their emotions while ignoring the facts.
Well stated and the absolute truth!
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,750 posts, read 4,439,055 times
Reputation: 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowne View Post
^ This ^ where the Obama Administration was taken to task for being in violation of the Flores Settlement Agreement Filed 05-17-2016; continue reading ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
thank you for the depth of your post. Personally, I would disagree with quoting AILA so authoritatively - they certainly have an agenda - but I also want to point this part out for trobesmom and any others:
Quote:
The United Nations 1951 Convention and 1967 Protocol define a refugee as a person who is unable or unwilling to return to his or her home country, and cannot obtain protection in that country, due to past persecution or a well-founded fear of being persecuted in the future “on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.” Congress incorporated this definition into U.S. immigration law in the Refugee Act of 1980."
now, it would be very helpful if we can find the language about the requirement to seek asylum in the next available country, and whether Mexico or some other point in-between qualify.
Still looking ...
Quote:
I would disagree with quoting AILA so authoritatively
They link to the official court documents (see shadowne post above) concerning POTUS(s) violation of the Flores Settlement Agreement. Which is an ongoing lawsuit that the Trump Administration is working towards overturning the agreement so as they can keep the children in their custody indefinitely. Under Flores, the children are to be released 72 hours after incarceration into either a State Certified Licensed Facility designed to care for them appropriately, or release to their Stateside sponsor. (neither of those two things are happening)

On May 31, 2019 (how many will check it out?) additional court documents have been filed and they can be viewed here from my post #513. If a person wants to know beyond News Media Journalist or they want to know where the Journalist are getting their information --- view the court documents which detail the lawsuit and the conditions of the incarcerated children. Click on the document marked Exhibit and read all of the 115 pages. I do not know at this time the where or when there will be a court room hearing or if this particular case is to be brought before Judge Dolly Gee. (research is ongoing [documents filed June 24, 2019; no action taken] and I'm fuzzy on the details) Note: No, they are not free to leave the facilities and attempt to do so will make matters worse for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
"someone bound with chains" was not described as a child, and can only be assumed to be an adult, likely a male.

the second link is from the "World Socialist Web Site" ... I'll simply pass on any comment there, though I did read much of the link.
Quote:
"someone bound with chains"
It was from that article where I read that investigators were there to take notes so as to document conditions so as to obtain evidence to bring before the courts [in the, ongoing lawsuit].

Quote:
I did read much of the link.
I did as well with skepticism, however, when they state an emphatic, that is where I research for additional information.

WSWS is right about the flu outbreaks. Several of the CBP personnel have gone home because of the sicknesses.

Another article I read from there, because it looked interesting:
Democrats line up behind Trump’s war on immigrants


Update information on the facility in Clint TX:

News Wrap: Children being moved from El Paso detention center

"The Associated Press had reported kids going without food and showers, and some falling sick. It said older children had to care for babies and toddlers. Today, the office of Texas Congresswoman Veronica Escobar said only about 30 children remain at the site. It is unclear where the others were taken." (my emphasis)


US gov’t moves migrant kids after AP exposes bad treatment

"The U.S. government has removed most children from a remote Border Patrol station in Texas near the border with Mexico following reports that more than 300 children were detained there and caring for each other with inadequate food, water and sanitation.

Only about 30 children remained at the station outside El Paso on Monday, Rep. Veronica Escobar said after her office was briefed on the situation by a U.S. Customs and Border Protection official.

Most of the infants, toddlers and teens who were held at the Border Patrol station in Clint, Texas, were scheduled to be transferred by Tuesday to shelters and other facilities run by a separate federal agency, the Office of Refugee Resettlement said." (my emphasis)

Last edited by Ellis Bell; 06-25-2019 at 04:40 PM..
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,750 posts, read 4,439,055 times
Reputation: 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapa1 View Post
Obama wasn’t perfect, but he has not even come close to the cruelty of Trump and his goons. Why are families still separated? He has no plan on what to do with these kids, and unfortunately more will probably die, but I doubt that you even care.
Quote:
Why are families still separated?
How can it happen in the first place?

How Trump can separate migrant families
June 5, 2018


"President Trump tweeted this morning — again — incorrectly claiming that the current practice of separating undocumented children from their parents when they cross the border stems from a "law" passed by Democrats.

It all starts with two mechanisms from the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations designed to protect undocumented children who arrived at the border:
  1. The Flores Settlement
  2. The Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act (TVPRA)
Yes, but: a more recent federal court ruling left the door open for the Trump administration's current policy:
  • In 2015, the 9th Circuit Appeals Court ruled the Flores Settlement applied to both accompanied or unaccompanied minors — but did not apply to their parents.
  • Leon Fresco, an immigration lawyer who argued on behalf of the government in 2015, warned at the time that the decision could lead to future administrations forcibly separating child migrants from their parents, he told Axios. Fresco said that the idea seemed too far-fetched at the time, "but I knew people like that. And now those people are in power."

The bottom line: The recent practice of separating migrant families is due to the Trump administration's decision to institute a "zero-tolerance" policy at the border. And while the mechanisms that allowed the Trump administration to institute its policy came about under Democratic administrations, they are not "law" and could be changed at any time." (my emphasis)
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Old 06-25-2019, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
9,384 posts, read 7,185,984 times
Reputation: 8113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapa1 View Post
And your orange god isn’t a “nut job”? Wake up!
good gracious, try not to prove someone else's point!

Quote:
You realize the Obama administration was sued for the same thing. Was he a cruel wannabe dictator, too?


****for those with low intelligence, this is not excusing anything currently. Just pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of the frothing left (not all left, just the nutjobs)
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Old 06-25-2019, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,750 posts, read 4,439,055 times
Reputation: 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
now, it would be very helpful if we can find the language about the requirement to seek asylum in the next available country, and whether Mexico or some other point in-between qualify.
As of March 2018:

Mexico: Still Not Safe for Refugees and Migrants

"The Trump Administration seeks to prevent refugees who pass through Mexico from receiving asylum in the United States. In addition to pushing for legislative change that would allow the U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security to unilaterally declare Mexico a “safe third country,” recent reports also indicate the administration aims to press Mexico to agree to a safe third country agreement."

House Bills Would Largely Dismantle Asylum System at U.S.-Mexico Border

"The Trump administration has raised with Mexico the idea of developing a safe third-country agreement, though the discussions appear to be very preliminary in nature. A unilateral declaration likely would create a diplomatic row between the two countries, as Mexico is not required to accept the repatriation of non-Mexican nationals. Mexico resisted when confronted with a similar prospect in 2017, when President Trump signed an executive order on border security ordering DHS to return certain foreign nationals to Mexico while their removal proceedings are pending in the United States. Mexican officials said they would not accept such repatriations, and the provision has not been enacted by the United States.

In the event of a unilateral safe third-country designation, as contemplated under Goodlatte and the second bill, all asylum seekers approaching the southern border would be turned away, except for those demonstrating a well-founded fear of persecution in Mexico. This would likely drastically reduce the number of requests to pursue asylum from Central Americans, which reached nearly 20,000 in the first four months of fiscal year (FY) 2018."
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:27 PM
 
4,001 posts, read 1,217,678 times
Reputation: 3124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post

The bottom line: The recent practice of separating migrant families is due to the Trump administration's decision to institute a "zero-tolerance" policy at the border. And while the mechanisms that allowed the Trump administration to institute its policy came about under Democratic administrations, they are not "law" and could be changed at any time." (my emphasis)
Zero tolerance implies that they are following the law exactly as it is written, they aren't interpreting it in favor of anyone. The concept is very simple, you are arrested when you get caught breaking the law. We don't throw children in jail, therefore they are separated from the law breaking parents. That's zero tolerance, no wiggle room, the law says XYZ, they get XYZ.

The exact same thing would happen to an American family attempting to cross the border illegally INTO the United States, and the parents would be arrested and thrown in jail, there by separating them from their children. This is a pure simple fact.

It's pretty cut and dry.

The home countries need to step up and start taking the children back and placing them with family or relatives. Of course they don't give two shts about th we people. Where are they in this crisis? Or is it still not a crisis?
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:37 PM
 
36,787 posts, read 16,362,663 times
Reputation: 9900
Another liberal still crying about the separation of kids from their parents when that is no longer happening except under very strict, lawful guidelines since a year ago when a judge ruled against "zero tolerance". Even those separated under zero tolerance have been either re-united with their parents or placed with a relative here in the U.S. yet the liberals still keep yapping about it.
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Old 06-25-2019, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,750 posts, read 4,439,055 times
Reputation: 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
The bottom line: The recent practice of separating migrant families is due to the Trump administration's decision to institute a "zero-tolerance" policy at the border. And while the mechanisms that allowed the Trump administration to institute its policy came about under Democratic administrations, they are not "law" and could be changed at any time." (my emphasis)
Quote:
Originally Posted by max210 View Post
Zero tolerance implies that they are following the law exactly as it is written, they aren't interpreting it in favor of anyone. The concept is very simple, you are arrested when you get caught breaking the law. We don't throw children in jail, therefore they are separated from the law breaking parents. That's zero tolerance, no wiggle room, the law says XYZ, they get XYZ.

The exact same thing would happen to an American family attempting to cross the border illegally INTO the United States, and the parents would be arrested and thrown in jail, there by separating them from their children. This is a pure simple fact.

It's pretty cut and dry.

The home countries need to step up and start taking the children back and placing them with family or relatives. Of course they don't give two shts about th we people. Where are they in this crisis? Or is it still not a crisis?
Zero tolerance is a policy it is not law. (policy enacted by the Trump Administration)

Immigration policy

An immigration policy is a policy of a country, state, nation or government that deals with the movement of immigrants or people across its borders into the country and those people that intend to stay and work.

What is Immigration Law?

Immigration law refers to the rules established by the federal government for determining who is allowed to enter the country, and for how long. It also governs the naturalization process for those who desire to become U.S. citizens. Finally, when foreign nationals enter without permission, overstay their visit, or otherwise lose their legal status, immigration law controls how the detention and removal proceedings are carried out.

US Immigration Law and Legal Definition

Immigration law is under the control of Congress. Presidential power is limited to policies on refugees. Courts will not become involved in immigration issues unless constitutional rights are involved. (my emphasis)


a "zero-tolerance" policy at the border are not "law" and could be changed at any time.


And no one is concerned that the u.s. is acting on policy, not law. What is that poem, when they came for ... it was not me, so I was not concerned; something to that effect?

Did you know that under the Bush Administration they were rounding up u.s. citizens whose last names were Muslim and as of 2002 (i was in college and knew current events; discussion in class; teacher changed the topic) 3000 u.s. Muslim citizens were still locked up and being denied their due process? It was the Bush Administration's policy (not law) that enabled that to happen.

For whom the bell tolls ... no worries until it is thee?


Additional reading:
The History of the Flores Settlement
How a 1997 agreement cracked open our detention laws
"There have been discussions in Congress about passing a law that would supersede Flores and finally settle the issue. Several Republicans, mostly notably Ted Cruz (R-Texas), called on Congress to fix Flores in order to resolve the related issue of child-parent separations and catch-and-release. As of early 2019, however, such a fix has yet to pass Congress, and doesn't look likely to any time soon."


Adding ps:
Quote:
The home countries need to step up and start taking the children back and placing them with family or relatives.
Some one else said something to this effect. Think about what happens if these countries or Mexico take a great interest.

Last edited by Ellis Bell; 06-25-2019 at 07:29 PM..
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Old 06-25-2019, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,750 posts, read 4,439,055 times
Reputation: 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Another liberal still crying about the separation of kids from their parents when that is no longer happening except under very strict, lawful guidelines since a year ago when a judge ruled against "zero tolerance". Even those separated under zero tolerance have been either re-united with their parents or placed with a relative here in the U.S. yet the liberals still keep yapping about it.
Another humanitarian wanting the u.s. to be the country it is suppose to be rather than another China.


Read if you want to be informed, do not read it you do not give a crap.


#513
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
9,384 posts, read 7,185,984 times
Reputation: 8113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
^ This ^ where the Obama Administration was taken to task for being in violation of the Flores Settlement Agreement Filed 05-17-2016; continue reading ...
Still looking ...
They link to the official court documents (see shadowne post above) concerning POTUS(s) violation of the Flores Settlement Agreement. Which is an ongoing lawsuit that the Trump Administration is working towards overturning the agreement so as they can keep the children in their custody indefinitely. Under Flores, the children are to be released 72 hours after incarceration into either a State Certified Licensed Facility designed to care for them appropriately, or release to their Stateside sponsor. (neither of those two things are happening)

On May 31, 2019 (how many will check it out?) additional court documents have been filed and they can be viewed here from my post #513. If a person wants to know beyond News Media Journalist or they want to know where the Journalist are getting their information --- view the court documents which detail the lawsuit and the conditions of the incarcerated children. Click on the document marked Exhibit and read all of the 115 pages. I do not know at this time the where or when there will be a court room hearing or if this particular case is to be brought before Judge Dolly Gee. (research is ongoing [documents filed June 24, 2019; no action taken] and I'm fuzzy on the details) Note: No, they are not free to leave the facilities and attempt to do so will make matters worse for them.

It was from that article where I read that investigators were there to take notes so as to document conditions so as to obtain evidence to bring before the courts [in the, ongoing lawsuit].

I did as well with skepticism, however, when they state an emphatic, that is where I research for additional information.

WSWS is right about the flu outbreaks. Several of the CBP personnel have gone home because of the sicknesses.

Another article I read from there, because it looked interesting:
Democrats line up behind Trump’s war on immigrants


Update information on the facility in Clint TX:

News Wrap: Children being moved from El Paso detention center

"The Associated Press had reported kids going without food and showers, and some falling sick. It said older children had to care for babies and toddlers. Today, the office of Texas Congresswoman Veronica Escobar said only about 30 children remain at the site. It is unclear where the others were taken." (my emphasis)


US gov’t moves migrant kids after AP exposes bad treatment

"The U.S. government has removed most children from a remote Border Patrol station in Texas near the border with Mexico following reports that more than 300 children were detained there and caring for each other with inadequate food, water and sanitation.

Only about 30 children remained at the station outside El Paso on Monday, Rep. Veronica Escobar said after her office was briefed on the situation by a U.S. Customs and Border Protection official.

Most of the infants, toddlers and teens who were held at the Border Patrol station in Clint, Texas, were scheduled to be transferred by Tuesday to shelters and other facilities run by a separate federal agency, the Office of Refugee Resettlement said." (my emphasis)
I'm not sure I can understand the relevance of all this. Kudos to you if you've followed every rabbit hole to the end of 155 page documents.

the "people in chains" was quoting from your article and the embedded link to "read the immigrants' individual statements" - the affidavit of a woman and she described an interaction with her son. Let's not lead anyone on the unthinking arm of the left to think that meant young kids were put in chains.

When they are caught, they are detained (arrested) and sent to a CBP facility. Within 72 hours (if at all possible is roughly how the language reads) they are to be transferred to ORR, which actually houses/holds on/imprisons them (just checking who's paying attention) until their parents are processed or some other family member/sponsor comes and gets them. That's where the Homeland FL facility comes in ... our regular ORR facilities are also at capacity.

Have I got that wrong?

If 40,000 kids show up, and our capacity at ORR facilities is 10,000 ... there's gonna be about 30,000 in detention and makeshift facilities.
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