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Old 06-23-2019, 08:14 PM
 
5,549 posts, read 6,977,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RcHydro View Post
Travel to other countries, and you will see just how exceptional America really is. Many things here you take for granted, you will no longer have there.
Freedom of speech does not exist in European countries.
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:19 PM
 
55 posts, read 5,098 times
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It's exceptional compared to other first world nations. Better stated the US is anomalous outlier in a non-flattering way.


It is also scientifically fortuitous that the U.S. is an anomalous outlier not only in its elevated religiosity, but in its elevated socioeconomic defects. If religious America were no more dysfunctional than the more secular prosperous democracies, then a viable explanation for the divergence in popular faith and nonfaith would be difficult to discern. This study’s uniquely broad based comparison of socioeconomic conditions in the most prosperous democracies confirms that they vary widely among these nations, and that the U.S. is the most dysfunctional prosperous democracy overall.

The above snip it comes from this interesting study:


The Chronic Dependence of Popular Religiosity upon Dysfunctional Psychosociological Conditions
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:26 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
6,557 posts, read 3,656,219 times
Reputation: 12317
It seems like somehow the "American Dream" became perverted from rising up from from poverty or humble roots, usually as an immigrant, and living a good life and raising a healthy family to one of unbridled privelege, exclusivity, judgementalism, and intolerance of people not like ourselves. That has become part of the baggage that we carry with us in varying degrees and it influences the perceptions other countries have of America.

America as "exceptional" is a long standing cornerstone of our culture going back to Manifest Destiny and before. It was a lie then and it is a lie now. America's early contribution to the world was the repudiation of the divine right of kings and the rule by a hereditary elite. It was as alien to the 18th century as the idea of communism was in the 20th. Some see divine right now embodied in our nation's position in the world. Another lie, largely based on religious fundamentalism. Sadly, the idea of a privileged and wealthy ruling class, hereditary in some cases, has also returned and become entrenched in American social and political culture.

Last edited by SunGrins; 06-23-2019 at 08:40 PM..
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:28 PM
 
55 posts, read 5,098 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ram2 View Post
Freedom of speech does not exist in European countries.
Please take the time to understand that the US in not unique with respect to freedom of expression/speech.

European Union

Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. 2. The freedom and pluralism of the media shall be respected.

Here's another example.


Freedom of speech in the Czech Republic is guaranteed by the Czech Charter of Fundamental Rights and Basic Freedoms, which has the same legal standing as the Czech Constitution. It is the first freedom of the charter's second division - political rights. It reads as follows:

Article 17

(1) The freedom of expression and the right to information are guaranteed.
(2) Everyone has the right to express their opinion in speech, in writing, in the press, in pictures, or in any other form, as well as freely to seek, receive, and disseminate ideas and information irrespective of the frontiers of the State.
(3) Censorship is not permitted.
(4) The freedom of expression and the right to seek and disseminate information may be limited by law in the case of measures necessary in a democratic society for protecting the rights and freedoms of others, the security of the State, public security, public health, and morals.
(5) State bodies and territorial self-governing bodies are obliged, in an appropriate manner, to provide information


There's a long list of countries with freedom of speech.
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:33 PM
 
Location: USA
17,660 posts, read 8,845,467 times
Reputation: 13185
Yet they have Hate Speech laws in Europe and you can be jailed for just speaking your mind.
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:41 PM
 
55 posts, read 5,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Yet they have Hate Speech laws in Europe and you can be jailed for just speaking your mind.
Speaking your mind is a bit different than hate speech intended to demean and brutalize another, or the use of cruel and derogatory language or gestures on the basis of real or alleged membership in a social group. Hate speech is speech that attacks a person or a group on the basis of protected attributes such as race, religion, ethnic origin, national origin, sex, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity.

In the US they call this making terroristic threats which is a crime that will land you in jail.
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Old 06-23-2019, 09:57 PM
 
1,739 posts, read 592,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montroller View Post
Speaking your mind is a bit different than hate speech intended to demean and brutalize another, or the use of cruel and derogatory language or gestures on the basis of real or alleged membership in a social group. Hate speech is speech that attacks a person or a group on the basis of protected attributes such as race, religion, ethnic origin, national origin, sex, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity.

In the US they call this making terroristic threats which is a crime that will land you in jail.
Lots of people on this forum say things that attack protected groups and I've never heard of anyone being arrested for it.
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Old 06-24-2019, 12:54 AM
 
10,544 posts, read 2,692,185 times
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The US used to be exceptional imo...LONG AGO!!!


Until they started enacting laws to target minorities (the first drug laws), and now these goofy laws are still in place (not to target minorities anymore though, they will happily arrest people of any race over drug laws!!!!


What makes this SO bad and unethical today...while they are not deigned to target minorities anymore...the drug laws are in place to benefit foreign drug cartels and ensure the US remains such a lucrative marketplace for them...how low we have sunk to actually be aiding and abetting foreign criminal organizations!
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Old 06-24-2019, 01:35 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,558 posts, read 2,428,887 times
Reputation: 2738
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
The US used to be exceptional imo...LONG AGO!!!


Until they started enacting laws to target minorities (the first drug laws), and now these goofy laws are still in place (not to target minorities anymore though, they will happily arrest people of any race over drug laws!!!!


What makes this SO bad and unethical today...while they are not deigned to target minorities anymore...the drug laws are in place to benefit foreign drug cartels and ensure the US remains such a lucrative marketplace for them...how low we have sunk to actually be aiding and abetting foreign criminal organizations!
When was it exceptional?

Long ago, when? Under Jim Crow, when inequality was the law of the land and people could beat, rape and kill others due to skin color with no repercussions?

Or during slavery and the genocide that occurred here?

Do you mean before this land was the USA?
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Old 06-24-2019, 01:52 AM
 
39,451 posts, read 40,762,330 times
Reputation: 16258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montroller View Post
Please take the time to understand that the US in not unique with respect to freedom of expression/speech.

European Union

Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. 2. The freedom and pluralism of the media shall be respected.

Here's another example.


Freedom of speech in the Czech Republic is guaranteed by the Czech Charter of Fundamental Rights and Basic Freedoms, which has the same legal standing as the Czech Constitution. It is the first freedom of the charter's second division - political rights. It reads as follows:

Article 17

(1) The freedom of expression and the right to information are guaranteed.
(2) Everyone has the right to express their opinion in speech, in writing, in the press, in pictures, or in any other form, as well as freely to seek, receive, and disseminate ideas and information irrespective of the frontiers of the State.
(3) Censorship is not permitted.
(4) The freedom of expression and the right to seek and disseminate information may be limited by law in the case of measures necessary in a democratic society for protecting the rights and freedoms of others, the security of the State, public security, public health, and morals.
(5) State bodies and territorial self-governing bodies are obliged, in an appropriate manner, to provide information


There's a long list of countries with freedom of speech.

Bolded is mine. You either have freedom or speech or don't. That limits what you can say, one could argue it only limits extreme speech but the issue there is who is deciding what is extreme speech.
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