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Old 06-24-2019, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Canada
3,901 posts, read 2,726,232 times
Reputation: 5084

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Specifically what are they citing that concerns you the most about government interference with what journalists are publishing.
I was simply answering your question about what specific concerns/data contributed to the U.S. rating compared to other countries.

Why would I have any concerns about American press freedoms? The U.S. is not my country.
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Old 06-24-2019, 04:50 PM
 
1,447 posts, read 291,556 times
Reputation: 1295
If all these liberals who doubt American exceptionalism would just leave, everyone would be happier and better off. Please leave.
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Old 06-24-2019, 04:55 PM
 
18,268 posts, read 10,368,849 times
Reputation: 13325
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Specifically what are they citing that concerns you the most about government interference with what journalists are publishing.
Now we have to be specific while you and others are suggesting hate speech laws in other countries are denying freedom of speech?


Fighting words and offensive speech
Main article: Fighting words

A Westboro Baptist Church protest was the subject of an "offensive speech" Supreme Court case in Snyder v. Phelps (2010)
In Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire (1942), the Supreme Court held that speech is unprotected if it constitutes "fighting words".[31] Fighting words, as defined by the Court, is speech that "tend[s] to incite an immediate breach of the peace" by provoking a fight, so long as it is a "personally abusive [word] which, when addressed to the ordinary citizen, is, as a matter of common knowledge, inherently likely to provoke a violent reaction".[32] Additionally, such speech must be "directed to the person of the hearer" and is "thus likely to be seen as a 'direct personal insult'".[33][34]

“True threats of violence” that are directed at a person or group of persons that have the intent of placing the target at risk of bodily harm or death are generally unprotected.[35] However, there are several exceptions. For example, the Supreme Court has held that "threats may not be punished if a reasonable person would understand them as obvious hyperbole", he writes.[36][37] Additionally, threats of "social ostracism" and of "politically motivated boycotts" are constitutionally protected.[38]



The first para contains a reference to "offensive speech" that does indeed allow for exactly the same type of prosectution that happened in Austria.

The Second para details the type of situation for those two U.S. teens that any court in the land should have determined as "hyperbole" but since there's been so many school shooting etc. in the U.S. …. heightened sensitivity is allowing for exceptions to common sense to occur.

Goalposts - - moving.
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Old 06-24-2019, 04:59 PM
 
18,268 posts, read 10,368,849 times
Reputation: 13325
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Specifically what are they citing that concerns you the most about government interference with what journalists are publishing.
https://pressfreedomtracker.us/

It's all in the link.
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Old 06-25-2019, 07:04 AM
Status: "I'm an Unmherkun puppy-kicking Socialist" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,044 posts, read 2,120,231 times
Reputation: 3780
At the end of the day, or more accurately, at the end of the world history book...

From Ancient Egypt to Digital Age America...

Nations cannot be moral or immoral: only individuals can be.

Sure, governments (and even voting populations) are made up of individuals - though usually there's some kind of predominate viewpoint, or even deep philosophical/cultural assumptions dominating - which tempts/provokes them to certain acts or expressions. The same thing goes for less formal groups of people, all the way down to the Smithville Birdwatching Club - and (provocatively enough) even families. But that still doesn't change that good individuals can be part of bad systems, nor prevent bad individuals from being part of good systems.
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Old 06-25-2019, 07:27 AM
 
39,466 posts, read 40,779,124 times
Reputation: 16272
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post


Fighting words and offensive speech
Main article: Fighting words

[color=Blue] A Westboro Baptist Church protest was the subject of an "offensive speech" Supreme Court case in Snyder v. Phelps (2010)

8-1 decision in favor of the Westboro Bapstist Church(Phelps).
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Old 06-25-2019, 07:52 AM
 
18,268 posts, read 10,368,849 times
Reputation: 13325
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
8-1 decision in favor of the Westboro Bapstist Church(Phelps).
Were they charged and did they have to defend themselves? Why yes, they were and yes they did.

The whole premise of this thread is based upon rare incidents of people ANYWHERE being charged with some form of criminal offence that some Americans think is egregious as compared to their 'supposed' superior freedoms of speech.

There have been instances of the very same circumstances happening in the U.S. .. people being prevented from speaking through court imposed gag orders parallel to the U.K.'s Tommy Robinson case held in such scorn by some Americans. There have been two cases at least of teens going to jail for months or even years in the U.S. for doing nothing more than responding to being triggered on gamer sites. Both cases should have been dismissed out of hand due to the "stimulated hyperbole" descriptor used in a precedent setting circuit decision, but due to all the attention drawn to teens performing school shootings ….. they went to jail in an over-reaction fueled by societal fear in the U.S.

Those are bonified examples of freedom of speech being no more sacrosanct and protected in the U.S. than in any other first world developed and democratic country.

Any number of independent org's have adjudged the U.S. lacking in individual freedoms as compared to others. Freedom of the press is lower as rated by independent worldwide reporters.

If claiming "exceptionalism" based upon freedoms, either expressed or implied, as being superior in the U.S. as compared to those other countries frequently mentioned by various posters; that claim is tenuous at it's best and spurious at it's worst.
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:03 AM
 
39,466 posts, read 40,779,124 times
Reputation: 16272
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Were they charged and did they have to defend themselves?

They were not charged by the government , it was a civil case.


-----edit----


Just to add if you unfamiliar with the Westboro Baptist church if you want clear examples of the extremes for Constitutionally protected free speech in the US they would be it. There is people that would not blink an eye if given the chance to kill them with no cosequences.

Last edited by thecoalman; 06-25-2019 at 08:18 AM..
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:19 AM
 
18,268 posts, read 10,368,849 times
Reputation: 13325
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
They were not charged by the government , it was a civil case.


-----edit----


Just to add if you unfamiliar with the Westboro Baptist church if you want clear examples of the extremes for Constitutionally protected free speech in the US they would be it. There is people that would not blink an eye if given the chance to kill them with no cosequences.
I see.
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:20 AM
 
Location: USA
17,709 posts, read 8,863,537 times
Reputation: 13236
Quote:
Originally Posted by RowingFiend View Post
If all these liberals who doubt American exceptionalism would just leave, everyone would be happier and better off. Please leave.

One of the characteristics of U.S. exceptionalism, Free Speech, codified by the 1st Amendment protects their Natural Right to criticize the U.S. It is ironic that they exercise this right, but not realize that we were the first country to do that and one of the few if not the only one to uphold that right throughout our history. Have we been imperfect at times? Yes. Have we worked to correct most of it? Yes.

Still the Left criticizes as we have not yet become the unattainable and unwanted Utopia they crave.
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