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Old 06-25-2019, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Ohio
5,020 posts, read 1,809,097 times
Reputation: 4105

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
"Exceptionalism" isn't about America being PERFECT. It is about the concept and founding of a country based upon merit, and not about your FAMILY, or Royalty by birth. It is also the concept of CITIZENS having Natural Rights as humans upheld and guaranteed by the Constitution, and having SOME say in their representation in government.

OP. Take a Civics and History course. Get some education before you post nonsense.
Everything you say is true. The real question is whether this idealistic view of the world, codified into the Constitution of a once great nation, can withstand the forces of Nationalism and neo-fascism which are slowly extending their roots all over the world.

The Roman Empire survived 350 years; the US has survived almost 250 years; the real question is what makes us believe that it will stand forever? Or even until the end of this century? There are plenty of anarchists who despise our system of government and would like nothing better than to tear this country apart - some of them post right here on C-D POC.
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:07 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,277 posts, read 19,566,600 times
Reputation: 13053
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
You don't make a business, team, nation, whatever better by spending all of your time talking about what it does right. You make it better by talking and working to fix what is fundamentally wrong about it. Droning on about America's perceived exceptionalism is nothing more then a monumental waste of time and a cheap excuse to avoid discussing its many inherit flaws.
The United States has a few problems (mostly minor social issues) just like every country does. It will work through these issues with time. But there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the United States. It is one of the most successful and advanced countries ever to exist.

People who want to change what we currently have by imposing outrageous taxes, making living spaces smaller, cutting off high incomes and making everything more expensive like in Europe need to look elsewhere for their utopian dreams.

I think far-left American liberals should move to Africa. Not because that is where they "belong." But because Africa is the poorest continent on Earth. Maybe liberals can help improve the living situation there with their philosophy and ideas. Who knows?
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:47 AM
 
Location: San Jose
2,137 posts, read 646,663 times
Reputation: 2260
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The United States has a few problems (mostly minor social issues) just like every country does. It will work through these issues with time. But there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the United States. It is one of the most successful and advanced countries ever to exist.
Minor social issues???? the US has massive social, economic and political problems. On a scale unmatched by any other developed nation on earth.

We have high rate of drug addiction of any country on the planet
The highest rate of obesity
the highest violent crime rate in the developed world
A broken and corrupt education system
A broken and corrupt healthcare system
An unchecked and regulated military industrial complex
The worst infrastructure in the developed world
The world's largest inmate population
The most mass shooting in the world
A declining middle class
An exploding homeless population
A high suicide rate
etc, etc, etc.

Yeah...just little, minor social issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
People who want to change what we currently have by imposing outrageous taxes, making living spaces smaller, cutting off high incomes and making everything more expensive like in Europe need to look elsewhere for their utopian dreams.
Well the quality of life in Europe is leagues beyond what it is in America, so logically the average American should aspire to a happier more fulfilling life by emulating what people in Europe are doing. Its working. If that means taxing the rich at higher levels so be it.
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Canada
3,914 posts, read 2,732,479 times
Reputation: 5086
I found this on Wikipedia:

Quote:
Claims of exceptionality have been made for many countries, including the United States, Australia, France, Germany, Greece, India, Pakistan, Imperial Japan, Iran, Israel, North Korea, South Africa, Spain, Britain, the USSR, the European Union, and Thailand. Historians have added many other cases, including historic empires such as China, the Ottoman Empire, ancient Rome, and ancient India, along with a wide range of minor kingdoms in history.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exceptionalism
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:23 PM
Status: "I'm an Unmherkun puppy-kicking Socialist" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,059 posts, read 2,125,845 times
Reputation: 3791
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
8-1 decision in favor of the Westboro Bapstist Church(Phelps).
I remember Snyder v. Phelps, about Phelps and his Westboro ilk celebrating the death of an Iraq War soldier at the funeral. The speech clearly included vile hateful rhetoric against a soldier of a "sodomite" nation as well as general homophobic content.

Hopefully, that decision will be shows as erroneous as the 1896 Plessy vs Ferguson decision that made "separate but equal" constitutional for almost half a century. When the founding fathers wrote the first amendment, I seriously doubt they had hateful, personalized provocative rhetoric in mind. Fortunately, Germany's Basic Law (1949) explicitly affirms human dignity as paramount, meaning that freedom of speech is important to the extent that it doesn't promote hostile indignity against others. So Phelps would have been arrested over there, no question. BTW, Phelps was banned entering the UK at some point, as his speech clearly was not protected under UK law. How hostile speech, with no culturally or intellectually redeeming content, and clearly meant to stoke inflammatory hatred against others, or even one individual, deserves to be protected is beyond me.

And don't give me that "we have to protect ALL speech or we'll end up like North Korea" line. It's not that hard to tell the difference between saying generalized stuff like "Theresa May", "Justin Trudeau", etc. is a F***** [body part]" and speech clearly a direct invitation attack a person because they have a certain personal shortcoming (difficult to impossible to change). BTW, in Germany's Basic Law - politicians are largely exempt from "dignity first" restrictions, except in extreme cases. So don't worry, their versions of John Oliver and SNL, and even conservative comedians, are perfectly safe from the law there - for the most part.
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:16 PM
 
39,498 posts, read 40,823,172 times
Reputation: 16309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil75230 View Post
How hostile speech, with no culturally or intellectually redeeming content, and clearly meant to stoke inflammatory hatred against others, or even one individual, deserves to be protected is beyond me.

Once again the issue becomes who is deciding what is acceptable. It's illegal speech that helped found this country. This is fundamental and most of our leaders and the courts have recognized this through the years. That woman in Austria may have been only one of a handful of cases but how many people in that country just keep their mouth shut because they fear the same thing happening to them?

Phelps and his followers are just some ass wipes, it's the downside of truly having free speech but the alternative is not acceptable. Furthermore I rather see people like Phelps expose themselves for who they are than festering in the background.

Quote:
So don't worry, their versions of John Oliver and SNL, and even conservative comedians, are perfectly safe from the law there - for the most part.
This is far more important that what some comedian says about a politician.

Last edited by thecoalman; 06-25-2019 at 02:39 PM..
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Canada
3,914 posts, read 2,732,479 times
Reputation: 5086
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
Yawn...Tell that to the Romanovs (1613-1917) and the Bourbons (1589-1792)
You omitted the part of my post which clearly indicated I was speaking of England. I was refuting your comment: “America's early contribution to the world was the repudiation of the divine right of kings and the rule by a hereditary elite. It was as alien to the 18th century as the idea of communism was in the 20th.”

England clearly had reputiated the Divine Right of Kings in the 1600s, as evidenced by the English Bill of Rights of 1689 and the fact that King Charles I was executed in 1649 on the charge of high treason.

Quote:
After his succession in 1625, Charles quarrelled with the Parliament of England, which sought to curb his royal prerogative. Charles believed in the divine right of kings, and was determined to govern according to his own conscience. Many of his subjects opposed his policies, in particular the levying of taxes without parliamentary consent, and perceived his actions as those of a tyrannical absolute monarch.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_I_of_England

So no, America’s contribution to the world was NOT the repudiation of the divine right of kings. King George III of England was not ruling by divine right when the English colonies in America revolted.

Edited to add: This is an interesting link:

https://www.losal.org/cms/lib7/CA010...s_Compared.pdf

Quote:
American colonists expected to have the same rights granted in England by the Magna Carta and the 1689 English Bill of Rights. When the American colonists were denied these rights tensions grew in the colonies and led to the American Revolutionary War. Many of the themes and principles contained in the Magna Carta and the English Bill of Rights are continued in the American Declaration of Independence of 1776, the First State Constitutions, the Articles of Confederation, the U.S. Constitution, and in the US Bill of Rights.

Last edited by cdnirene; 06-25-2019 at 02:54 PM..
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:10 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,277 posts, read 19,566,600 times
Reputation: 13053
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Minor social issues???? the US has massive social, economic and political problems. On a scale unmatched by any other developed nation on earth.

We have high rate of drug addiction of any country on the planet
The highest rate of obesity
the highest violent crime rate in the developed world
A broken and corrupt education system
A broken and corrupt healthcare system
An unchecked and regulated military industrial complex
The worst infrastructure in the developed world
The world's largest inmate population
The most mass shooting in the world
A declining middle class
An exploding homeless population
A high suicide rate
etc, etc, etc.

Yeah...just little, minor social issues....
Many of the things you mention don't really affect most mainstream Americans. For example, drug addiction, obesity, violent crime, imprisonment and homelessness are widespread largely among the lower socioeconomic strata. They are not common among middle-class Americans and higher.

Some people make poor life decisions, get bad grades in school, don't have much work ethic or are mentally ill. As a result, life for them can be an uphill battle and they end up in undesirable circumstances.

I will say though that I think the cost of food should be higher in the United States. Because we are such a rich country, there is too much inexpensive food available everywhere. It is a big reason why so many people are overweight. People have to eat less.
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,884 posts, read 31,780,534 times
Reputation: 12629
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX Wahine View Post
Oh look. More random America-bashing from C-Dís resident snarky Canadian.

How shocking.
Just the facts. Don't like 'em, too bad.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:02 AM
 
36,978 posts, read 16,123,746 times
Reputation: 8408
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Minor social issues???? the US has massive social, economic and political problems. On a scale unmatched by any other developed nation on earth.

We have high rate of drug addiction of any country on the planet
The highest rate of obesity Not a fed problem
the highest violent crime rate in the developed world wrong
A broken and corrupt education system Not a fed problem
A broken and corrupt healthcare system Not a fed responsibility
An unchecked and regulated military industrial complex wrong
The worst infrastructure in the developed world Most are state, county and city responsibilities
The world's largest inmate population Because of our "punishment " system is too lax and most are staets crimes.
The most mass shooting in the world Isolated to a few cities
A declining middle class A RISING middle class
An exploding homeless population Take them into YOUR house.
A high suicide rate Not as high as many pther countries
etc, etc, etc.

Yeah...just little, minor social issues....



Well the quality of life in Europe is leagues beyond what it is in America, so logically the average American should aspire to a happier more fulfilling life by emulating what people in Europe are doing. Its working. If that means taxing the rich at higher levels so be it.
"Well the quality of life in Europe is leagues beyond what it is in America," In your dreams.


How odd you are from ca, and want to complain about OTHERS and MANY of your complaints ARE STATE problems, Ca being one of the WORT for these problems.


Most of the things you talk about are NOT fed RESPONSIBILITIES. I suggest a course in the Constitution

If we are so bad and the other countries are so GOOD, why are you still here?

Last edited by Quick Enough; 06-26-2019 at 06:12 AM..
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