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Old 06-24-2019, 11:22 PM
 
Location: The middle of nowhere
8,984 posts, read 4,107,118 times
Reputation: 7666

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There is a lot of talk among conservatives about how Dems need to abandon identity politics and drop abortion support to win 2020. Conservatives insist that if Dems commit to upholding separation of church and state that it is going to cost them votes. However, I'm not sure this is the case. Most Americans support Roe v Wade and support marriage equality. The Dems are NEVER going to win the religious right so it's pointless for them to even try to concede to them. Another factor is there are many Americans who are Christian but do not align with or even oppose the religious right. Every time conservatives try to claim that Democrats are "anti-Christian" because they oppose the Christian nationalist ideals of the religious right, they are in essence attacking the Christianity of the millions of liberals who also consider themselves Christian but practice their faith differently.

While I will say the stronger the Dem candidate is in favor of liberal policies on social issues, the more highly conservative religious voters will be motivated to get out and vote for Trump, they aren't really gaining or losing voters by their position on those issues. They would lose voters however by compromising with the religious right. The Democratic base is just as passionately for women's rights, LGBT rights, and separation of church and state as the GOP base is for forced birth, traditional marriage, and a "Christian nation." Moderates tend to lean towards the left to varying degrees.

Agree or disagree?
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Old 06-24-2019, 11:32 PM
 
4,472 posts, read 878,470 times
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Not sure if it necessary. It helps if a common ground can be found in/for some situations.
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Old 06-24-2019, 11:36 PM
 
Location: The middle of nowhere
8,984 posts, read 4,107,118 times
Reputation: 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eumaois View Post
Not sure if it necessary. It helps if a common ground can be found in/for some situations.
The problem is, there can be no compromise with the religious right on the issues they care about. They see everything in black and white and in a sense they are right. People are either equal under the law regardless of race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation or they aren't. The position of revoking a sizable portion of Americans' civil rights in the name of religion isn't a simple matter of disagreement over policy.
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Old 06-24-2019, 11:44 PM
 
4,472 posts, read 878,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bawac34618 View Post
The problem is, there can be no compromise with the religious right on the issues they care about. They see everything in black and white and in a sense they are right. People are either equal under the law regardless of race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation or they aren't. The position of revoking a sizable portion of Americans' civil rights in the name of religion isn't a simple matter of disagreement over policy.
I am not religious but am Right-leaning. I disagree with the LGBT lifestyle (seeing marriage and having kids as a man/woman thing was how I brought up) but I do recognize they do have various rights long afforded to straight couples (at least in theory). I am on the abortion side only in cases of rape, incest, to save the woman's life, or if practically speaking the baby would most have likely died upon being delivered.
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
14,385 posts, read 7,918,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eumaois View Post
I am not religious but am Right-leaning. I disagree with the LGBT lifestyle (seeing marriage and having kids as a man/woman thing was how I brought up) but I do recognize they do have various rights long afforded to straight couples (at least in theory). I am on the abortion side only in cases of rape, incest, to save the woman's life, or if practically speaking the baby would most have likely died upon being delivered.
Well your opinion should be respected. However, you need to extend that same respect to others who will never think like you do. and that's the problem with the evangelicals. Their my way or the highway mentality concerning gay rights and abortion will never align with the Democrats ideology of pro choice and respect for all cultures. Yet they dismiss a president that cheats on his wife, lies, and grifts and look the other way while the married chair of the RNC pays off his playmate girlfriend for having an abortion. Anything goes as long as they destroy Roe v Wade. How many Republican's have had abortions? I'll bet you could find a few evangelicals in there too.

What you are describing is something that has been ingrained in you since you were a child. Thinking in a different direction is difficult, I get that. What I don't get is the over reach and the audacity that anyone has the right to tell another person what to do with their life and their body. Put yourself in their shoes and think about how you would feel if you were told that you had to be gay. Couldn't do it could you. Why is that? Because you were born to be who you were born to be? Live and let live.
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:17 AM
 
26,634 posts, read 9,061,236 times
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The unprincipled democrats should not expect the principled religious right will compromise !!!

What would become of them ?

They would be acting like democrats and lose what makes them different !!!
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:20 AM
 
10,777 posts, read 13,673,547 times
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They don't need the religious right to win....if they dropped some of the more extreme positions and courted more working class whites from midwest states, Hillary would have won.
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:26 AM
 
Location: San Diego
5,065 posts, read 1,385,598 times
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Is it necessary for Democrats to find a compromise with the religious right in order to win?


No.

Nothing the Democrats do now, will let them win.

If they compromise, most people know they will renege.

If they appear to agree with the Republicans, people know they will break those agreements and bash the Republicans they pretended to agree with.

If they say they want to cut taxes, people know taxes will increase. Every time.

If they say they want to get the rest of the world to like us, people have seen from the Clinton and Obama administrations that they have no idea how, and that their attempts will result only in other world powers laughing at us, mistrusting us, attacking our assets, and taking huge advantage of us.

Normal Americans have had it up to here with the Democrats. They no longer trust them, believe them, or want them in charge... except for those who hope to benefit from the government goodies the Democrats always promise.

Will the Democrats compromising now, help them win?

No. Nothing will do that any more.
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:27 AM
 
Location: too far from the sea
19,838 posts, read 18,845,295 times
Reputation: 33746
The Dems should continue to uphold separation of church and state. It's only the extremist right wing "Christians" who disagree with them. There are still mainstream Christians who do not want to be ruled by extremist religion. Anyway, the extremist Christian views are becoming less and less popular and will some day die out.

Just drop some of the silly, trivial identity politics. Stop talking about reparations, stop talking about paying off college tuition. This is the kind of stuff that is irritating even to regular Democrats. Get on board with doing something about health insurance and the immigration problem.
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:38 AM
 
4,338 posts, read 2,263,916 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
Is it necessary for Democrats to find a compromise with the religious right in order to win?


More like self delusion here.

Nothing the Democrats do now, will let them win. The election is theirs to lose - already polling well ahead.

If they compromise, most people know they will renege. Compromise ? Oh you mean do their jobs and get things done ? Trump had two years of total control and only succeeded in passing a huge tax cut for the rich and exploding the deficit (with zero cuts).

If they appear to agree with the Republicans, people know they will break those agreements and bash the Republicans they pretended to agree with. Again huh ? WTF are you talking about ?

If they say they want to cut taxes, people know taxes will increase. Every time. Taxes are going up on the rich and most Americans agree.

If they say they want to get the rest of the world to like us, people have seen from the Clinton and Obama administrations that they have no idea how, and that their attempts will result only in other world powers laughing at us, mistrusting us, attacking our assets, and taking huge advantage of us. The rest of the world liked us (past tense) during those two admins. We had MORE respect globally during those two administrations than the almost laughing stock we are now (they actually laughted at Trump when he spoke at the UN) - did you ever see a baby Obama float ??

Normal Americans have had it up to here with the Democrats. They no longer trust them, believe them, or want them in charge... except for those who hope to benefit from the government goodies the Democrats always promise. Again what KoolAid are you drinking? The country is fed up with Trump (60% disapproval) and the only president to never crack 50% approval rating.


Will the Democrats compromising now, help them win?

No. Nothing will do that any more.

Trump is doing just fine losing the election all on his own. Not sure if you are a real person or a paid to post such nonsense but feel free to post any facts that support any of your wild conjecture.
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