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I don't know what "started the fight" means in this case. Or how Alabama stand your ground laws work.
"Starting a fight" between otherwise equal opponents doesn't necessarily mean that one gets to pull a gun to finish it.
I am licensed to carry a gun in Texas. Let's say one guy my size and age comes toward me in a parking lot with an issue about me getting the parking slot he was angling towards.
Not even in Texas can I simply pull out my pistol and shoot him, even if he takes a poke at me.
The Alabama stand your ground laws dont apply when it is an abused women who shoots her aggressor charging towards her on her own property.
The ways this law can be used are endless. Suppose a pregnant woman has a car accident, baby dies and she was speeding 5 miles over the limit or making a left hand turn and gets t-boned?
The accident is her fault. Are they going to prosecute her for manslaughter? The absurdity of this law is simply beyond normal. I have a feeling that once this story hits the national news, there will be a backlash.
What good would a backlash do though? Alabama has a right to make their own laws. Although I don't know if they have a law that says it's okay to pull a gun and shoot someone just because you're angry with them. Do you mean the courts could do something to overrule the decision to charge the woman with murder? Maybe some of the judges and lawmakers in Alabama need to go to jail.
Well, I read it on a UK site. So it's spread world wide and again, the US is the laughing stock of the world. The comments on that site indicate that they think our whole country is crazy like this. Thanks, Alabama.
No one has a right to pull a gun and murder someone in cold blood. How anyone could twist that around to blame the pregnant woman, is beyond me.
Nothing says American I guess like agonizing over what the Europeans think.
You are making the assumption that the shooters reaction was disproportionate to the threat, based on what evidence? You then admit that you read one article and based on that single article that you can then judge what type of response was appropriate, that the shooter "could very well have escalated" and then claim that the poster you're replying to is "making a ton of assumptions". The shooters actions were reviewed by a grand jury that apparently deemed them appropriate and reasonable given the situation. If you want to make the assumption that the posters in this thread (including yourself) "know better" than the grand jury, despite the GJ having access to all the available evidence vs a single article or two that folks on here have read, then there really is much to discuss.
There is no need to shoot an unarmed, five month old pregnant woman in self defense. All you have to do is either walk quickly or run away. Unless you were born with your feet on backwards, there is no way in hell she'll catch you.
Like I posted earlier, as a conservative Christian right-winger, this is one of those "What the hell has happened! " moment for me.
Things like this serve as a case against states rights. I mean, if states are going to do things like this, it's getting scary thinking they have the right to make up laws and to enforce them and punish people. It's sounding more and more like The Taliban than anything American.
Nothing says American I guess like agonizing over what the Europeans think.
I don't care what Europeans think, I feel this is pure lunacy.
These two women fought over a baby daddy, and the shooter decided to pull out a gun and shoot the pregnant one in the stomach? They both could have ended the argument. That lame self-defense excuse is something I won't buy in this situation.
Matter of fact, I DO question the shooter woman's motive, but maybe this is another subject.
Plus, yes, it is a complete waste of time and tax dollars of arresting this woman. What she needs is some counseling.
Things like this serve as a case against states rights. I mean, if states are going to do things like this, it's getting scary thinking they have the right to make up laws and to enforce them and punish people. It's sounding more and more like The Taliban than anything American.
Have to say I agree.
Jerseygirl posted earlier that
Unfortunately a lot of cases in general come down to prosecutorial discretion. I'm sure this isn't the first time a pregnant woman in AL has lost her baby as a result of some stupid, reckless conduct, but for whatever reason these prosecutors want to make a point with this one. I don't think it's a coincidence that it's happening at the same time states are passing "heartbeat bills" trying to further restrict abortion, with the idea that it's a "person" at 6 weeks when the "heart beats" (in quotes because this is something doctors have disputed the accuracy of).
They are very often charged with murder. Note in the first article where the woman describes the many women in prison for shooting their abusive SO.
Now who is really not very often charged with manslaughter is the victim of a shooting.
If your complaint is that people who sometimes should be charged are not, or people who sometimes shouldn't be charged ARE, then you're having a different argument than I am. As a general legal principle and a matter of statutory law, both men AND women are entitled to defend themselves against their attackers; there's no legal principle or statute stating otherwise as you apparently are attempting to assert.
I have neither the time nor inclination to examine and analyze the specific fact pattern in all of your links, but I notice your selective formulation where the women have been jailed "for shooting their abusive SO." Only in very rare circumstances will the mere fact of an SO being abusive and therefore presenting a PROSPECTIVE threat of great bodily harm will the use of lethal force be justified; otherwise the threat must be IMMINENT for a self-defense claim to succeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415
Unfortunately a lot of cases in general come down to prosecutorial discretion. I'm sure this isn't the first time a pregnant woman in AL has lost her baby as a result of some stupid, reckless conduct, but for whatever reason these prosecutors want to make a point with this one. I don't think it's a coincidence that it's happening at the same time states are passing "heartbeat bills" trying to further restrict abortion, with the idea that it's a "person" at 6 weeks when the "heart beats" (in quotes because this is something doctors have disputed the accuracy of).
But prosecutorial discretion is one reason why we sometimes see so much inconsistency in application of laws, like when some parents are charged for leaving their kids in hot cars and they die, even when it seems to be a genuine accident, and others aren't. Another explanation is that state laws vary especially when it comes to details of self-defense.
In this case the defendant didn't merely engage in stupid reckless conduct, she engaged in stupid CRIMINAL conduct in which great bodily harm of another person was THE ACTUAL INTENT of her criminal conduct.
What good would a backlash do though? Alabama has a right to make their own laws. Although I don't know if they have a law that says it's okay to pull a gun and shoot someone just because you're angry with them. Do you mean the courts could do something to overrule the decision to charge the woman with murder? Maybe some of the judges and lawmakers in Alabama need to go to jail.
A public backlash would be pretty embarrassing to the officials in Jefferson County. This is different than the abortion law, though obviously there will be a connection made regarding treatment of women.
But, this could be pretty widespread 'outrage' or whatever you would like to call it. I've noticed that whenever Trump announces a new policy or threatened policy that the majority are against, it goes away pretty fast. I think maybe this will quietly go away, or they are going to end up with demonstrations, bad publicity and activism that they don't need or want. I could be wrong, of course--just my opinion. There is just no real principle for them to stand on here.
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