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When workers were pushing for reforms and unionization there was just cause. But once the mob got involved then greed set in. Bigger and bigger demands were made of industry bosses beyond the initial worthy reforms. The only ones who benefited from these new demands were the union bosses. They gave rousing speeches to gain support from the workers for the things the union bosses wanted. As time goes by more and more union workers have come to realize there wasn’t much difference between the union bosses and the industry bosses.
You talk of the mob. I'm aware of how they can suck the life out of something good. Perhaps they were a natural response to the owners using Baldwin Felts agents and Pinkertons to maim, intimidate and kill honest working people who organized for a better deal.
Corporations are not 'warm and fuzzy'. They distinctly look out for the best interests of their shareholders, as they should. An employee who understands that can easily protect him/herself. This isn't 1950. The kind of abuse unions resolved earlier in US history is not existent any more, and unions no longer provide any discernable benefit that an employee cannot provide for him/herself.
I have never pretended corporations are overly friendly. I have repeatedly said that if an employee aligns him/herself with the moral interests of a corporation (ie, adding value to shareholders) that the employee will do well.
You mention abuse. I call your attention to events where detective agencies and the national guard actually murdered strikers. To contradict your second sentence, it is my observation that you defend corporate actions at every opportunity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii
If unions are actually useful in the modern day, they would produce results that people can see. Again, there's no need for propaganda. The idea that someone would WANT propaganda on either side (pro-union or pro-corporations) is disturbing.
If unions want to be taken seriously, they don't need hollywood propaganda. They need to give people the choice to not join the union if they don't want to. Stop strong arming people into joining and unions will be more respected.
You speak of propaganda being disturbing. That would make a cat laugh. We are surrounded by propaganda. Just turn on Fox News or MSNBC.
Outside of the public sector, unions are systematically being attacked and being destroyed. Thirty years of globalization has weakened unions to the point that they are winners if they can hold their heads above water. Many of your statements are made as if there is no systematic effort to end the union movement.
In fact, I would like tho know if you have gone to one of the many classes that teach managers to proactively prevent collective bargaining activities?
Something else will eventually replace capitalist corporations and labor unions, but we won't see that in a capitalist movie industry. Movie production starts at millions. Investors want profit.
Films that show the ability to organize in the face of overwhelming odds.
If the film makers thought that sort of film would make money, there would be several in theaters now. Unfortunately for your world view, no one really wants to see that sort of movie these days.
My employer pays workers at our non-union locations a higher wage than our unionized locations have negotiated. The company also follows the union contracts to the letter, so the union employees don't get many of the extras the non-union employees get. I saw the union's opening position for contract negotiations a few years ago, and had to laugh. 40% wage increase, 6 weeks vacation for new hires, a large number of non-productive consultation positions for the union, and other stupidity. Unions are irrelevant.
I was in IT for 30 years. It is the only work environment that I am thoroughly familiar with. In IT, management has constantly been exerting pressure to extend the work day to 7 PM. These sweat shops are right here in the USA.
I've always regarded unpaid overtime as a scam and have always resisted it. Management is constantly substituting form over substance when pressing someone to stay late. When a person is working hard from 8 AM, they are bone tired by 4 PM. Staying later than that on an ongoing basis just burns the person out.
Unions are more relevant than ever.
Those alive during the time of Upton Sinclair are turning in their graves over your "sweat shop" analogy.
I have owned businesses for most of my adult life and managed others during my college years. People always have the option to go elsewhere or start their own firm. Bill Gates is not sitting around today complaining about how he was overworked for the past 30 years for some overbearing IT boss. He worked non stop 24 hours or more at stretches to get his business off the ground. I worked 70 or 80 hour weeks often 7 days a week to get my business in the black. You don't appear to be the type would has that in them.
Bottom line, you don't like your work conditions change employers. Don't like your field do something else. You can always start a business in your field. Or you know what make yourself the best employee at your company or department. Go above and beyond. Years ago I hired someone for a near entry level job at one of my companies. He came in Monday morning, a week after he was hired with this detailed plan to streamline the department he was working that would save me a ton of money. It was brilliant and something above and beyond what you would expect someone in his position to do. Guess who was promoted to management Tuesday? And guess who felt I was being unfair in promoting this person? Those who could barely make it through the day, which is most people. Those people are stuck working for others and are never happy doing so.
Most people don't want to be exceptional but want to be treated like they are. So instead of being proactive and improving their situation they want a union to mandate it. In the long run the ones who gain are those running the union. No one else.
Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 07-05-2019 at 08:24 AM..
If the film makers thought that sort of film would make money, there would be several in theaters now. Unfortunately for your world view, no one really wants to see that sort of movie these days.
My employer pays workers at our non-union locations a higher wage than our unionized locations have negotiated. The company also follows the union contracts to the letter, so the union employees don't get many of the extras the non-union employees get. I saw the union's opening position for contract negotiations a few years ago, and had to laugh. 40% wage increase, 6 weeks vacation for new hires, a large number of non-productive consultation positions for the union, and other stupidity. Unions are irrelevant.
You need to ask your self the question: Is your employer paying you better out of the goodness of his heart or because there is a union watching?
Also, negotiating positions often start at absurd levels. Any decent attorney will tell you that.
Those alive during the time of Upton Sinclair are turning in their graves over your "sweat shop" analogy.
I have owned businesses for most of my adult life and managed others during my college years. People always have the option to go elsewhere or start their own firm. Bill Gates is not sitting around today complaining about how he was overworked for the past 30 years for some overbearing IT boss. He worked non stop 24 hours or more at stretches to get his business off the ground. I worked 70 or 80 hour weeks often 7 days a week to get my business in the black. You don't appear to be the type would has that in them.
Bottom line, you don't like your work conditions change employers. Don't like your field do something else. You can always start a business in your field. Or you know what make yourself the best employee at your company or department. Go above and beyond. Years ago I hired someone for a near entry level job at one of my companies. He came in Monday morning, a week after he was hired with this detailed plan to streamline the department he was working that would save me a ton of money. It was brilliant and something above and beyond what you would expect someone in his position to do. Guess who was promoted to management Tuesday? And guess who felt I was being unfair in promoting this person? Those who could barely make it through the day, which is most people. Those people are stuck working for others and are never happy doing so.
Most people don't want to be exceptional but want to be treated like they are. So instead of being proactive and improving their situation they want a union to mandate it. In the long run the ones who gain are those running the union. No one else.
You speak for one out of a thousand, I speak for the other 999.
You speak for one out of a thousand, I speak for the other 999.
Your "message" is mostly intended for the 100-or so who just don't get it; who have no work ethic -- and never will.
Just another delusional post to beat the old class-warfare drum; one of the effects of de-industrialization is that neither the owner of a small, local enterprise, nor a collection of the not-too-skilled and not-too-ambitious have much power. Outside of the dwindling heavy-industrial core, pay scales tend to settle at a level determined by supply and demand alone.
And to draw from a somewhat more-sophisticated model. I worked for four seasons between the end of tightly structured full-time employment responsibilities, and complete retirement -- at a major theme park. The number of full-time year-round employees was less than fifty. The rest were part-timers, teenagers seeking summer employment, and retirees like myself.
My first year was during the depths of the Great Recession and virtually everyone worked at minimum wage. But as the economy recovered, wages were raised to retain competent employees, and as the economy heated up, so did base pay; (eventually, admission prices also had to be raised). And I have no doubt that when (not if) the economy contracts again, base pay for new hires and many seasonal employees will go back to the minimum -- until the cycle repeats itself.
Despite the claims of the OP, an open economy has the capacity to regulate itself, and one of the effects of both a globalizing industrial base and stronger "safety net" is to reduce the power of both labor and management -- outside of a limited number of jobs in concentrated, tightly-disciplined, usually well-paying and heavily capital-intensive core industries. Charlatans like the OP seek to convince the mouth-breathers outside the elite of labor that a union card can make this happen for them, but it's not likely.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 07-05-2019 at 10:00 AM..
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