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Old 07-06-2019, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Houston
6,004 posts, read 3,707,604 times
Reputation: 4158

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
So, a 95% tax on everyone is acceptable?
No rates were mentioned. The poster said taxes are theft, period. I disagreed and stated the reason why. Your attempt at deflection is lame.
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Old 07-06-2019, 11:32 AM
 
2,359 posts, read 1,024,839 times
Reputation: 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
h

I'll bet you that doesn't take into account add-on taxes.

When you rent a home, you're not writibg a check for the property taxes, but they are added into your rent.

When you but a tv, and you pay your 8% sales tax, you're also paying the taxes of the manufavturer, all the suppliers, the taxes the transport company paid.

The vast majority of Americans with jobs are paying a minimum of 25% in taxes.

If you're middle class, I'd bet it's approaching 40%.

Just because a tax is hidden from you, doesn't mean you aren't paying it. All business tax is passed on to the end consumer.
This is especially true of the value added tax, which is applied at each stage of production. Since there may be many such stages where the VAT is applied, it is utterly opaque, as opposed to a traditional sales tax, where the taxpayer can actually see how much tax he's paying. (Utter anathema to policymakers, to be certain.)

Due to the complete lack of transparency associated with the VAT, by the time a product or service arrives at the retail level, the consumer has no idea how much of the price of the product or service is tax, and how much is the actual cost of production. The VAT is a tax vehicle tailor-made for politicians who covet vast cash flows, but do not wish to subject themselves to the political repercussions of having gone on record as favoring ever-higher levels of taxation.

Politicians and the economically illiterate tend to favor the VAT precisely because nobody can tell how much tax they've paid in purchasing the item they just bought. Consumers who favor transparency in taxation, however, tend to dislike the VAT for the same reason.
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Old 07-06-2019, 11:43 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,565 posts, read 44,283,634 times
Reputation: 13521
Quote:
Originally Posted by citidata18 View Post
Your "data" is misleading at best, which is my point. Repeating it over and over again doesn't change that.
How is including payroll tax, corporate tax, sales tax, real estate tax, property tax, etc., misleading? It isn't. You just don't like the truth.

Quote:
I trust data from the original sources (the IRS, OECD and the US Census Bureau) any day before the numbers that you're propagating.
I posted data from the IRS. You don't like it because it proves that 45% of US 1040 filers pay no federal income tax whatsoever.
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Old 07-06-2019, 11:53 AM
 
9,842 posts, read 7,587,981 times
Reputation: 2464
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Current federal income tax? No. The average effective federal income tax rate is 14.20%.

According to the IRS's most recently published data, here's the average effective federal income tax rate paid by each income group:

Top 0.1%: 27.05%
Top 1%: 26.87%
Top 5%: 23.49%
Top 5%-10%: 14.85%
Top 10%-25%: 10.71%
Top 25%-50%: 7.81%
Bottom 50%: 3.73%

Minimum household income for each income group:

Top 0.1%: $2,124,117
Top 1%: $480,804
Top 5%: $197,651
Top 5%-10%: $139,713
Top 10%-25%: $80,921
Top 25%-50%: $40,078
You also have to factor in any income below $10,000 will be tax exempt.

Example being someone who makes $12,000 will pay $1,600 in taxes a year.

Last edited by RunD1987; 07-06-2019 at 12:10 PM..
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Old 07-06-2019, 11:56 AM
 
9,842 posts, read 7,587,981 times
Reputation: 2464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton Miteybad View Post
This is especially true of the value added tax, which is applied at each stage of production. Since there may be many such stages where the VAT is applied, it is utterly opaque, as opposed to a traditional sales tax, where the taxpayer can actually see how much tax he's paying. (Utter anathema to policymakers, to be certain.)

Due to the complete lack of transparency associated with the VAT, by the time a product or service arrives at the retail level, the consumer has no idea how much of the price of the product or service is tax, and how much is the actual cost of production. The VAT is a tax vehicle tailor-made for politicians who covet vast cash flows, but do not wish to subject themselves to the political repercussions of having gone on record as favoring ever-higher levels of taxation.

Politicians and the economically illiterate tend to favor the VAT precisely because nobody can tell how much tax they've paid in purchasing the item they just bought. Consumers who favor transparency in taxation, however, tend to dislike the VAT for the same reason.
Sales tax sounds better it is a more upfront cost. Makes much more sense.
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:08 PM
 
8,302 posts, read 5,622,998 times
Reputation: 7531
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
How is including payroll tax, corporate tax, sales tax, real estate tax, property tax, etc., misleading? It isn't. You just don't like the truth.

I posted data from the IRS. You don't like it because it proves that 45% of US 1040 filers pay no federal income tax whatsoever.
The data you posted was misleading.

1. Employers don't withhold sales taxes, corporate taxes, real estate taxes and property taxes from wages their employees earn from working.

2. You're the one who started the discussion about "average tax rates," and now you want to rail on about people who don't pay federal income taxes, which has absolutely no bearing on the average.

Surely you know all of this and are just being obtuse. But I could be giving you too much benefit of the doubt.
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:17 PM
 
9,842 posts, read 7,587,981 times
Reputation: 2464
Example someone making $24,000 spends $12,000 for the year.

So say the sales tax is capped at 5% maximum percentage. That's $600 for the year.

$14,000 of income will be taxed say at 15% that is $2,100.

Then social security is taxed at 5% that is $1,200.

Medicaid and Medicare is taxed at 5% that is $1,200.

That is a total of $5,100 in taxes a year.

I only be in support of this if they capped the Government budget yearly. Did away with any other Federal taxes on an individual.

Last edited by RunD1987; 07-06-2019 at 02:02 PM..
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Alaska
7,430 posts, read 5,686,023 times
Reputation: 4818
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunD1987 View Post
Would you be in favor if the Government created a:

VAT tax on goods

Taxing income once it goes over $10,000 at 15%

5% Medicaid/Medicare tax

5% Social Security tax with a $150,000 income cap
Just a guess here but you lean socialist?
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Haiku
7,132 posts, read 4,731,045 times
Reputation: 10327
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Agree 100%!

I've stated this before... The Fed Gov has a SPENDING problem. I support eliminating spending on every Fed Gov program that is not directly authorized by the US Constitution's Article I Section 8, which enumerates the Fed Gov's responsibilities. Everything not enumerated in Article I Section 8 is unconstitutional and therefore nothing but Fed Gov overreach.
There goes the FDA, the DEA, the FBI, EPA, Depart of Education, Bureau of Reclamation, no more power generation, no more highways, no more FAA. That is worse than the lowest third world country. If that is what you want, just move to say, El Salvador.
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Old 07-07-2019, 01:41 AM
 
Location: Houston
6,004 posts, read 3,707,604 times
Reputation: 4158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Said the thief.
If something is "necessary" people will willingly pay for it.
And you dont get to lecture me on civilty after threatening to lock me in a cage for not wanting to fund the killing of women,children and men defending their homes or the bombing of their hospitals, schools,sanitation systems, places of worship...
Is there a deflection of the month award? If there is you surely earned it with this little rant.
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