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Had you taken the time to read all the comments, you'd see he's indicting these people doing this as much as the rest of us are.
I think there has been alot of misunderstandings going on lately. Going from one discussion to another. Going from talking about the crime to talking about the underclass.
As for this event, I don't like what those kids did. They committed crimes and should be punished for what they did. I wouldn't have been involved in anything like that in my life. I'd have to answer to my parents.
And people wonder why we need high capacity weapons.
High capacity weapons.
While I certainly do not condone their behavior, what crime/s did they commit worthy of being killed in mass?
I certainly think law abiding individuals should be able to own high capacity weapons for a variety of reasons, but it wouldn't be to execute kids for committing theft and vandalism.
Watch many businesses leave, no new ones come. Same sane response business has after riots in cities.
Let them rot. Reduce investment in risky places.
This has already been happening. No change in behavior in some of the residents that live there. Those who have the resource to leave do so.
Those kids need to be punished for what they did. At the same time, I think about some of those kids. How are many of them doing in school? Who's raising those kids? How many of those kids are still in school? How many have done time in juvenile hall? How many among that flash robbery are gang affiliated?
In some of those areas where businesses have left, sometimes riots pop up again. You would think that with businesses leaving and people not investing in those areas, some people would learn their lesson. And this brings me to a concept that I am preaching.
Prevention. Stuff like flash robberies need to be prevented. We have individuals who congregate with the purpose of causing mayhem. I've noticed something. Individuals who cause events that drive business away think in short term. There isn't much of a concept of long-term impact. And by the time said individuals see the long term impact, it's too late. We need prevention. Said persons involved in crime need to understand that it's hurting the places they live. It's making life in their neighborhoods hard for those who are living there. Of course, many of those said persons don't care.
I think about riots that have occurred in the inner city ghettos. Yes, there is an element of "let's loot". There is also an element of anger, a mentality of "being non-violent is a joke". People who think in terms of "I'm angry and I'm ready to burn everything down now". One major element in all of this is no amount of thinking "this might hurt the neighborhood". If you handed many of those persons $1 million, the neighborhood would empty in a heartbeat.
The culture of poverty and thugs seem to go together. The culture of desperation, anger, and the attitude of "survive by any means necessary".
And I've mentioned in another post that if you want to see where a kid learns how to be a criminal, look to the family. Look to the environment that kid is in. Broken families, violence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
Explain to me how I'm part of the problem.
Fair enough. With apologies for my statement, I read through the thread and I understand your position more fully now. That said, my comment was made because of your insistence on excusing - justifying - rationalizing - explaining (pick one) the behavior as the result of the presence of the "underclass" in this country. It may be true that it exists, but what can be done about it and the behavior that it purportedly causes. The two comments I cut from your Elvis (above) post identify issues, however what I would like to hear (perhaps you said it somewhere and I missed?) is how does the black community fix this?
Prevention. Stuff like flash robberies need to be prevented. We have individuals who congregate with the purpose of causing mayhem.
But how do you prevent them? Simplistic answer to a complex, systemic, cultural problem.
Police aren't respected in the community, and the locals won't work with them. That needs to change.
No one in the community wants to be a snitch - or they will suffer the consequences. That too needs to change.
First of all, most of them appear to be full-grown adults, granted they are dressing and behaving like young thougs.
I live in a nice neighborhood in Northern CA. I was in Home Depot the other day when there was a flash mob rush. The helper told me this happens a lot and there's not a thing they can do about it. People come in, gather up items and rush out the door.
The company policies prevent employees from apprehending the criminal and the state laws allow them to go free if the cost is under a specific amount.
In my conversation with the workers at Home Depot, the event seemed to impact the morale of the employees to see their place of employment plundered like that. The two hard working gentlemen both seemed helplessly frustrated. One thing is probable is that without penalties, it won't stop and the USA will continue to become less safe and less civil place to live.
Fair enough. With apologies for my statement, I read through the thread and I understand your position more fully now. That said, my comment was made because of your insistence on excusing - justifying - rationalizing - explaining (pick one) the behavior as the result of the presence of the "underclass" in this country. It may be true that it exists, but what can be done about it and the behavior that it purportedly causes. The two comments I cut from your Elvis (above) post identify issues, however what I would like to hear (perhaps you said it somewhere and I missed?) is how does the black community fix this?
I was trying to discuss why America has such a large underclass. I was discussing it separate from the behavior seen in the underclass. I was also mentioning that dysfunctional behavior, such as gang violence, illegitimate births,etc, it's been around and predates the welfare state. This was for those who felt like getting rid of welfare would work.
Honestly, the only thing that seems to work is prevention. Once there are teenagers stealing and hurting other people, what then? Yes, I am in favor of punishing those persons. However, one has to wonder how those individuals got the way that they are. It starts early. At this point, many who can try to get out of neighborhoods like that. Those who don't live in those neighborhoods take care of their own families and try to keep them out of areas like that.
How can it *not* turn into a race-related thread when we are watching imagery of scores of black youth gone wild? And it’s the same image, day after day, city after city.
You’ve devoted tens of thousands of words here gently arguing on behalf of blacks, when really only one thing needs to be said: the black community needs to tighten it up & gain control of its youth. Period.
The "black community" can't do that anymore than I can influence the "white community" with it's own scumbags.
Case in point, whom do you think bears the brunt of the bad actions of black kids that weren't raised right? The black community itself does.
They have more motivation than anyone to put a stop to this...but can't.
Basically, the idea of "black community" is a colorful political phrase tossed around but in reality is a mythological creature.
But how do you prevent them? Simplistic answer to a complex, systemic, cultural problem.
Police aren't respected in the community, and the locals won't work with them. That needs to change.
No one in the community wants to be a snitch - or they will suffer the consequences. That too needs to change.
And this, the current solution is if you have the resources to leave, you leave. If you don't live in that neighborhood, you stay away and keep your kids away from those kids.
I get that many people don't trust the police. Some people actually fear the police. The question is WHY?
And something else. As a Black person living in a suburban, predominantly White area, I can only take care of my surroundings, what is around me. I don't live in the ghetto, and I'm not trying to go live there. My father worked hard to make sure I would never have to live there. I don't know what I could offer only knowing such areas from an academic perspective.
The "black community" can't do that anymore than I can influence the "white community" with it's own scumbags.
Case in point, whom do you think bears the brunt of the bad actions of black kids that weren't raised right? The black community itself does.
They have more motivation than anyone to put a stop to this...but can't.
Basically, the idea of "black community" is a colorful political phrase tossed around but in reality is a mythological creature.
One can only do their best. Personally, prevention is needed. It starts at home. It starts with having children in two parent homes, both father and mother. It starts with responsible parenting. Basically, alot of kids are coming up in dysfunctional homes to begin with. How do you prevent irresponsible sexual habits though?
One thing that makes trying to conquer such problems hard is simply, the thugs and idiots often don't listen. I don't think it's a matter of "can't". It's not even a matter of "won't". It's a matter of listening. Those who do that kind of nasty behavior don't care who they hurt. Most of them don't really care about their own. How do you deal with individuals who just don't care?
And I want to add this. Growing up in a middle class, suburban household, I still dealt with my share of racism. I have stories I won't mention here. However, I think about the persons committing crimes, and then I think about how I view it. When I was 10, 11 years old, and I heard of some people committing crimes, I would think "that person is bad and hurt someone, he/she needs to go to prison". I never thought to worry about the impact of race. Fast forward to age 33, my current age. I hear some report about a flash robbery and I think "why did it have to be Black people? We're already a looked down on population. This is just going to provide more excuses for some people to say 'we don't want Blacks around us' and I have to live with that crap". This is stuff I have to think about.
I wouldn't participate in such behavior. One, it's wrong. Two, I wouldn't be able to look my parents in the face if I went to prison for committing crimes. I was raised better than that. But then I think of this. The persons who keep committing these crimes often weren't raised better. I can't control what some idiot does. Said idiot would probably kill me. Said idiot probably doesn't care about anyone.
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