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Old Yesterday, 10:55 AM
 
12,296 posts, read 9,916,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
Studies don't always tell the entire story... As I said, multiple studies have numbers all over the place which should give an idea the prevalence of such events under study but exact numbers not necessarily.
Yup. No exact numbers. But you do get a better idea of what the study was actually demonstrating. A dude at the police station's word? A lot less so.

Quote:
I've had my fair share of encounters with corrupt police and/or simply bad rotten examples of them. I myself try to keep myself in check and remind myself not all police are bad... there are some outstanding examples of them.




You previously touted that learning is a valuable process in your post.... Marginalizing a study because your personal views on police AND ignoring studies on your whim...
Good thing I did not do that! I do believe I actually thanked for the information. Given that I have not read any further, I could only comment on what I had seen so far.

Quote:
cherrypicking... doesn't seem to indicate that you "walk the talk". maybe I am misreading your posts.... but i hope you keep an open mind as you move forward in this topic.

Again... my intent of posting here is to point out that the intent of the metoo movement certainly is important but execution/implementation that I see currently risks diverting away from the intent and more towards the "us vs them" notions. You have to include men and you have to address false accusations.
I too share your view that if this were to come to pass this would be of benefit to no one.
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Old Yesterday, 10:58 AM
 
Location: NNJ
9,601 posts, read 5,387,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Yup. No exact numbers. But you do get a better idea of what the study was actually demonstrating. A dude at the police station's word? A lot less so.


Good thing I did not do that! I do believe I actually thanked for the information. Given that I have not read any further, I could only comment on what I had seen so far.



I too share your view that if this were to come to pass this would be of benefit to no one.
oh ok.. then we are agreeing....
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Old Yesterday, 11:01 AM
 
Location: NNJ
9,601 posts, read 5,387,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Let's stop here for a moment and address that not all recantations even signify a genuinely false accusation. It very often signifies the cost of the report as too high to continue.
This is true. Many won't report it for various reasons... we have a bad habit of victim shaming as well.

It is important to note that asking for evidence also garnishes retribution as if it were victim shaming... this is a major problem.

Also, I believe most studies around this topic make a distinction between a declared false report versus one that was dropped by the accuser.
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Old Yesterday, 11:02 AM
 
12,296 posts, read 9,916,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
This is true. Many won't report it for various reasons... we have a bad habit of victim shaming as well.

It is important to note that asking for evidence also garnishes retribution as if it were victim shaming... this is a major problem.

Also, I believe most studies around this topic make a distinction between a declared false report versus one that was dropped by the accuser.
Good to know. I will keep an eye out.
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Old Yesterday, 11:09 AM
 
Location: NNJ
9,601 posts, read 5,387,580 times
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I would also like to point out that in the Brian Banks case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_...ican_football)

Neither mother nor daughter Gibson are facing jail time for the false accusation. A false accusation that resulted in a the false imprisonment of an outstanding individual for 6 years at a huge opportunity cost to reputation, career, future, etc AND stealing $1.5 million dollars from the school district. The only outstanding warrant for them is a civil monetary judgement of $2.5 million for damages inflicted / recup of costs on the school district.

NOTHING in damages was offered to Brian Banks (that I know of).
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Old Yesterday, 11:11 AM
 
12,296 posts, read 9,916,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
I would also like to point out that in the Brian Banks case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_...ican_football)

Neither mother nor daughter Gibson are facing jail time for the false accusation. A false accusation that resulted in a the false imprisonment of an outstanding individual for 6 years at a huge opportunity cost to reputation, career, future, etc AND stealing $1.5 million dollars from the school district. The only outstanding warrant for them is a civil monetary judgement of $2.5 million for damages inflicted on the school district.

NOTHING in damages was offered to Brian Banks (that I know of).
This is a travesty of justice, beyond doubt. But I ask this. What does that actually have to do with #metoo?

I know of NO precedent for damages being awarded to wrongfully convicted people. Do you?
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Old Yesterday, 11:21 AM
 
Location: NNJ
9,601 posts, read 5,387,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
This is a travesty of justice, beyond doubt. But I ask this. What does that actually have to do with #metoo?

I know of NO precedent for damages being awarded to wrongfully convicted people. Do you?
Each time there is a discussion around metoo and similar, the issue of false accusations and trial by public opinion comes up (it has been brought up several time in this thread). Similarly, asking for further investigation/proof usually results in accusations of victim shaming.

Usually the only response is "False accusations are rare anyways.."

All of this threatens and distracts from the original intent of such movements; it promotes the notions of "us vs them" rather than inclusion of male support.

If the movement and people marginalize the following concerns or ignore them

* asking for proof without being accused of victim shaming
* trial by public opinion before facts are known
* false accusations
* male victims

The movement will never garnish wide support from both men and women; something that is key to sparking change.

What does this have to do with metoo? Everything..... without men... there is nothing they can accomplish except more divisiveness.

Last edited by usayit; Yesterday at 11:26 AM.. Reason: spelling...
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Old Yesterday, 11:26 AM
 
12,296 posts, read 9,916,888 times
Reputation: 15880
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
Each time there is a discussion around metoo and similar, the issue of false accusations and trail by public opinion comes up (it has been brought up several time in this thread).
It is an incorrect distraction, in my opinion. In no other context do you hear things like liquor store burgaleries are up. Oh by yah? Well so is .... other illegal thing X.


Similarly, asking for further investigation/proof usually results in accusations of victim shaming.

Usually the only response is "False accusations are rare anyways.."

All of this threatens and distracts from the original intent of such movements; it promotes the notions of "us vs them" rather than inclusion of male support.

[/quote]
Yes. I agree.

Quote:
If the movement and people marginalize the following concerns

* asking for proof without being accused of victim shaming
Asking for proof of what? That most women experience this?

Quote:
* trial by public opinion before facts are known
* false accusations
* male victims
The notion of trial by opinion is a fact of life across all high profile

Quote:
The movement will never garnish wide support from both men and women; something that is key to sparking change.
Why not? What is the obstacle? The origin of me too was an entirely grassroots thing. It is merely an expression of scope.

Quote:
What does this have to do with metoo? Everything..... without men... there is nothing they can accomplish except more divisiveness.
Who is "they"? Do you not share the vision of a world in which half the population is not targeted in this way?
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Old Yesterday, 11:30 AM
 
12,296 posts, read 9,916,888 times
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Adding: I was more than a lot disappointed by some very bad treatment to men who also shared their metoo as if women own this problem. It is awful that people who share this cannot be heard.
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Old Yesterday, 02:18 PM
 
6,778 posts, read 6,565,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
See that is YOUR experience. Most of us who are women are telling you that many if not most of us have an experience in our history similar to that of the woman you quoted. Not everyone of our experiences are like, and if you had paid even the slightest bit of attention you would realize no one said it is. But the fact that any 30 yo man thinks its ok to assault a child, and you counter that with a "Wah dating is hard" story are examples of exactly why #metoo needs to exist.
Take it down a notch. I never claimed 30 year olds forcing themselves on minors was okay. Those people should be dealt with. However, not every instance of unwanted attention from someone of the opposite sex is rape, even if they get a little hand-sy and you have to get nasty. That is belittling to people actually have been victims of rape. People like Weinstein and Cosby's "victims" were more than likely not rape victims. Coerced maybe, but then again they were there playing along willingly. It is more like "Mee too! I put out willingly for this guy and it didn't get me what I wanted!" That is disingenuous use of the rape card and should not be taken lightly let alone rewarded.
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