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Old Today, 03:55 AM
 
13,605 posts, read 7,432,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Did a 30-something year old woman who looked like your Mom to you pin you against a wall for a deep kiss you couldn't get away from, when you were 12?

I mean, to a 12 year old that's pretty disturbing stuff. The guy was bald, he looked "old" to me, it freaked me out. He was grinding his body on me and I couldn't get away, until he decided to let me go. Laughing. My Mom thought it was hilarious, too. She'd taken me, for some reason, to a NYE party that a coworker of hers was having. There were no other kids or teens there. We were driving home and she just thought it was hi-larious that I was crying about a guy who looked like my Dad making out with me.
First, every adult at that party failed you. Most guys would have physically removed that POS from assaulting you before calling the cops. That aside, your mom’s reaction was cruel and so very wrong. It really struck me and I’m so sorry you were hurt by those men as well as your mother.
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Old Today, 04:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowne View Post
First, every adult at that party failed you. Most guys would have physically removed that POS from assaulting you before calling the cops. That aside, your mom’s reaction was cruel and so very wrong. It really struck me and I’m so sorry you were hurt by those men as well as your mother.
Of course. But that is hardly the point.

The point is how not abnormal this is.
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Old Today, 04:05 AM
 
13,605 posts, read 7,432,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Of course. But that is hardly the point.

The point is how not abnormal this is.
Men in their 30’s assaulting 12 year old girls at an all adult NYE party is abnormal.
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Old Today, 04:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowne View Post
Men in their 30’s assaulting 12 year old girls at an all adult NYE party is abnormal.
Evidence and experience says different.
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Old Today, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Colorado
11,910 posts, read 7,333,344 times
Reputation: 21375
The entire point of the "metoo movement" when it broke out, was for individual women, women you know, maybe women that you trust, would tell their stories, and the more you heard, the more you might come to understand that no, women's consent being violated just isn't rare. And maybe...just MAYBE...women who are actual victims of actual assaults, might be believed enough that some of the barriers to reporting might come down, and some justice might actually happen.

But we've got some problems, and I admit that even I do not ALWAYS simply believe the victim.

In situations where you know the people, it is both easier and harder...easier to make up your mind, because you probably trust one person more than the other anyhow. You know if the woman is a drama-mongering train wreck of a human being whose word is not worth a "fart in the wind." Do those people exist? Of course they do! They might still be telling the truth...but...their word is suspect. I get it. I've known some of them. I understand the hesitation, the moral dilemma, and how comfortable it can be to trust the man you see as a stand up dude over the woman who is always making trouble. I get it. But ya know, sadly enough, it's also a thing that predators don't always announce their nature to people that they want to stay on the good side of, and predators also often target the vulnerable, those less likely to be believed.

Another issue is that rape so often happens when there are no witnesses, and while one can prove sometimes that sexual contact occurred, if there's physical evidence (even assuming that a rape kit is in fact tested and used, which many aren't) but the problem is even if you can prove that there was sex, how do you prove that there was a lack of consent? Without bringing in all kinds of extraneous arguments about a woman's character, as though if a woman consents to sex with one man she's consented to any sex with any man under any circumstances... I get it. It's a tricky mess to prove guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt. And I don't want our criminal justice system to operate on any but the best of standards, so here we are, with a lack of good solutions.

Not to mention there are literally 100 or more good reasons that a woman might not report an assault when it happens.

So then the question is, when someone like me recognizes all of this, what do I gain from sharing my own "metoo" stories? I'm not messing up anyone's reputation, I don't even have names to throw out there, so that's not it. I'm not after any kind of justice, that ship has long sailed. It's not a cry for attention, there are plenty of better ways to get that. It certainly is no indictment of all men being rapists, I mean, seriously I know some hardcore feminists and I have NEVER heard any woman suggest such a thing. If one does, she's insane and should be disregarded, just as I instantly dismiss the opinion of anyone who says, "all people of <group> think/say/do <X.>" It is as bad as saying that all Muslims are terrorists, such a blanket statement. And it's worse than a distraction. Because it discredits those women who are saying that you know...we'd really like to be treated with somewhat more respect than what we've experienced.

I don't remember which logical fallacy it is, when you substitute your debate opponent's reasonable argument, with an unreasonable one, and then when you can (obviously) discredit the unreasonable thing you just made up, having painted it on them you shut down the original premise, which wasn't that outlandish made up thing. Somebody know? There's a term for it.

Another thought I've got on this, is the whole "court of public opinion" thing. Do ya'll realize how much an element of ridiculous ego there is in all of that? I mean every time a story comes out where someone has accused someone else of rape or anything like that, everybody has to take a side and spout off their opinion online as though it actually counts for something. Like we're all gonna vote on who is telling the truth and who is lying and who deserves to have their life ruined and who doesn't. It's stupid. Your opinion doesn't matter. Neither does mine. If you don't have enough information to judge the specific case, how about you accept that you simply DON'T KNOW and keep your mouth shut about it, and then all of this wouldn't be a problem. I feel the internet, giving us all this big bad free speech platform, has really made a lot of us feel like our opinions matter so much more than they honestly do.

And finally (sorry about the novel, guys) with regard to "false accusations"... To say that nothing happens to a false accuser in this day and age is insane. They get doxxed, they get death threats, rape threats, if a woman makes an accusation whether it is true or false and it gets into the media, she is risking a world of punishment for it. Nowadays (thanks, internet) from a bunch of self-important people who believe that rape isn't a thing and all women lie. If it doesn't hit the news, it'll just be anyone that ever interacted no matter how slightly with the dude who thinks that since he didn't rape them, he must be a stand up fella who doesn't deserve this. Don't tell me nothing happens to a false accuser. I know a woman who accused a slightly famous singer of a band, in a local Mom's blog, and she had people threatening to stalk her children at their schools and kill them. So just...don't even. But the "what should happen to a false accuser" question is tricky for me, too, because how do you prove it was a false accusation when proving guilt in a rape case is so difficult? Does this mean that if you were raped, and try to get justice, and the trial does not go your way, then you are punished for a false accusation even if you were telling the truth? Will this just make it so that women won't take that chance, if you can go to jail just for failing to be able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, your rapist's guilt in court?
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Old Today, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Nice, France
1,094 posts, read 441,741 times
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As for me : sexual agression (on breasts I didn't even have) first at age 8 by a friend of my father's in front of my mother and his wife (sic : oh you'll grow to be as beautiful as your mother, one day). Then kept going on. Age 9 : my uncle gropping my then hardly growing breast in the garage and leaving me with the comment "when you'll fill a real man's hands, I'll come back" (know what? I began to think I wasn't enough, after crying my eyes out on the floor and getting back there with a "good" face). 11: boys gropping a friend's buttocks, I intervened and got my parents called for "disturbing" time out (récréation here) - being punished for that, etc. Need me to go on ? Rape, fear and everything ?

A recent one ? Very recently ? Just three days ago, by three boys (18/20?) telling me I should try that as I was "still" (at age 44) acceptable and would "do" me as a favor.

Asked them if we should bring a fourth as otherwise it might not be fun seeing their willies and suggested the mother of the "leader" to come as I licked her just the day before.

Yes, 44, I wish I weren't so afraid but I learnt how to respond. To some. Not all. I still came back home shaking. Couldn't bring myself to kick their ass or call the police (I was wrong)

I didn't even tell you 1/10th of what happened, nor to any of my friends, pretty or not, thin or fat, young or old. Just because they were there, for whatever excited him, mostly the pleasure of being feared I guess.

NOONE ever said all men did or does this. AND to suggest that MEN are either rapists or innocent is silly and an insult to real men actually.


When women tell their partners, friends, fathers, brothers, uncles and all, what they live, everyday, and they don't believe it ? Get out of there, ostriches.

Understood the tragic/comedy in the OP's cartoon imediately.

My own partner is crazy about the idea and doesn't want to believe it. Is it too hard to understand that it might be a minority of men that act but still, most women have and will be affected by it ? Is it THAT hard to uderstand that you're not the accused but might be/act (as most rapist defenders here don't) as good men, without pretending to be all macho and LISTEN to women in your lives ?

Just imagine, just imagine a situation reversed.


ETA : I don't hate men, I love men, women, everyone. Men are still in power to stop this, yet most cowards don't.

That's what metoo is about.

Letting men, well, mostly folks, and also (very important and primarily) other women aware that they can talk/act/etc. Notice how most women testifying here has mentioned men, not straight men ? Women, lesbians or not, gay men and trans, no-god help them with this kind of thinking.

That's more than half the population of the world, way more. And no war wanted, just listening and begin to act on it. Which has begun with metoo, however clumsy, but should be followed by actual action.

Last edited by personne; Today at 11:47 AM.. Reason: grammar
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Old Today, 11:19 AM
 
5,833 posts, read 3,272,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Evidence and experience says different.
Yep, it happened to me, too. I was 12 or 13, my friend's drunk dad pinned me up against a file cabinet and started kissing me. My parents were in the living room.

I was 13 when the neighbor pinned me down in full view of my family and a half a dozen other neighbors and proceeded to "tickle" me. I could feel his erection on my thigh. He didn't stop until I was bawling.

The first sexual abuse I experienced was at age 4. It happened with such regularity and frequency that it just became part of my "normal" life. And that is some BS.
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Old Today, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Nice, France
1,094 posts, read 441,741 times
Reputation: 774
Exactly.

Can some REAL men listen to that ?

(I know most can )
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Old Today, 11:26 AM
 
12,239 posts, read 9,905,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicci6Squirrels View Post
Yep, it happened to me, too. I was 12 or 13, my friend's drunk dad pinned me up against a file cabinet and started kissing me. My parents were in the living room.

I was 13 when the neighbor pinned me down in full view of my family and a half a dozen other neighbors and proceeded to "tickle" me. I could feel his erection on my thigh. He didn't stop until I was bawling.

The first sexual abuse I experienced was at age 4. It happened with such regularity and frequency that it just became part of my "normal" life. And that is some BS.
metoo?
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Old Today, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Nice, France
1,094 posts, read 441,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
metoo?
I guess
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