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Old Today, 07:30 AM
 
79,426 posts, read 33,670,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseManOnceSaid View Post
He did, it's called resisting arrest. You go to jail for such an infraction.
If he would have lived he still would have won a settlement with all charges dropped. You are permitted to resist when your civil rights are being violated.

Yes, we see the cops arresting many by violating their civil rights, but the charges get dropped and the taxpayers get a bill.
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Old Today, 07:32 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
8,840 posts, read 7,978,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I don't think it has to come to that. The argument is that it will if we continue to excuse the violations of individuals civil rights.

Even the founders warned of this and enacted the 2nd Amendment. The violation of our rights by the government is the very reason they made sure to include that.

But to jump ahead, if that is what it took I believe the general citizenry wins as that is what the country was founded on.
I don't think it has come to that, either, it was a hypothetical put forward by desertdetroiter.


I believe the general citizenry "loses" in that hypothetical - due to even higher levels of stress/anxiety/suspicion for LEOs when it comes to interactions with possible criminals - long, long before we "win". People start killing LEOs in retaliation and that results in even more anxious (and almost certainly aggressive) actions on the part of police, it probably leads to the more desirable/qualified candidates choosing to do some other job, etc, etc. The ripple effect would be far-reaching. Cops might well decide not to patrol or respond to calls in the "bad" areas.


This change needs to be peaceful and social-pressure driven, IMO.


I might be wrong, though.


One thing I do know, you couldn't pay me enough to be a cop in a lot of areas today. Nope. No thanks.
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Old Today, 07:35 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
8,840 posts, read 7,978,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
More. This guy was killed for illegally selling cigarettes. He'd been cited before and needs a harsh fine/time in jail, but it shouldn't be a death sentence.


I'm certainly not arguing that he "deserved" to die for selling cigarettes illegally.


What I'm saying is "live to fight another day" and "make your case to the judge, not the arresting officer".
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Old Today, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
4,950 posts, read 3,684,669 times
Reputation: 4022
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
If he would have lived he still would have won a settlement with all charges dropped. You are permitted to resist when your civil rights are being violated.

Yes, we see the cops arresting many by violating their civil rights, but the charges get dropped and the taxpayers get a bill.
Good luck with that! Next time your civil rights are being violated go ahead and start throwing punches at the cops and see how that turns out for you. LMFAO

Make sure you're doing something illegal like selling illegal cigarettes while your rights are being violated... That's gonna be a hoot to watch.
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Old Today, 07:40 AM
 
79,426 posts, read 33,670,997 times
Reputation: 15889
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
I don't think it has come to that, either, it was a hypothetical put forward by desertdetroiter.


I believe the general citizenry "loses" in that hypothetical - due to even higher levels of stress/anxiety/suspicion for LEOs when it comes to interactions with possible criminals - long, long before we "win". People start killing LEOs in retaliation and that results in even more anxious (and almost certainly aggressive) actions on the part of police, it probably leads to the more desirable/qualified candidates choosing to do some other job, etc, etc. The ripple effect would be far-reaching. Cops might well decide not to patrol or respond to calls in the "bad" areas.


This change needs to be peaceful and social-pressure driven, IMO.


I might be wrong, though.


One thing I do know, you couldn't pay me enough to be a cop in a lot of areas today. Nope. No thanks.
The founders understood that change is not always going to be peaceful. Look at how many here still support the violations of Garner's civil rights.
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Old Today, 07:41 AM
 
79,426 posts, read 33,670,997 times
Reputation: 15889
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseManOnceSaid View Post
Good luck with that! Next time your civil rights are being violated go ahead and start throwing punches at the cops and see how that turns out for you. LMFAO

Make sure you're doing something illegal like selling illegal cigarettes while your rights are being violated... That's gonna be a hoot to watch.
It's a worthless attempt to discuss something with someone who will not discuss something honestly. Garner was doing nothing illegal but you just can't stop yourself.
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Old Today, 07:42 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
8,840 posts, read 7,978,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
The founders understood that change is not always going to be peaceful. Look at how many here still support the violations of Garner's civil rights.
So you feel we're at the tipping point of when retaliatory violence is necessary, then?
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Old Today, 07:47 AM
 
79,426 posts, read 33,670,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
So you feel we're at the tipping point of when retaliatory violence is necessary, then?
It's not really my call. If there are protest will I support them? Yes.

I don't support the taking of another life outside of direct self defense but unfortunately, this sometimes happens when there are protests.
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Old Today, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
4,950 posts, read 3,684,669 times
Reputation: 4022
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
It's a worthless attempt to discuss something with someone who will not discuss something honestly. Garner was doing nothing illegal but you just can't stop yourself.
He was breaking the law. Resisting arrest is breaking the law. Whether or not the cop had grounds to arrest him in the first place is up for debate, the fact that he repeated was in trouble for the same infractions is called... stupid or insanity, you pick your favorite term.

If I'm being arrested, or given tickets, or warned, or told sternly not to do something, to the tune of 37 times, at some point I'm going to comply or move to a different city, or do something to change my ways. The fact that Mr. Garner chose not to comply with those demands/warnings is on him, not the cops.
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Old Today, 07:55 AM
 
79,426 posts, read 33,670,997 times
Reputation: 15889
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseManOnceSaid View Post
He was breaking the law. Resisting arrest is breaking the law. Whether or not the cop had grounds to arrest him in the first place is up for debate, the fact that he repeated was in trouble for the same infractions is called... stupid or insanity, you pick your favorite term.
Stopping a police officer from violating your civil rights is not breaking the law. It is the police officer breaking the law. I have the legal right up to and including lethal force in stopping someone from violating my civil rights.

Quote:
If I'm being arrested, or given tickets, or warned, or told sternly not to do something, to the tune of 37 times, at some point I'm going to comply or move to a different city, or do something to change my ways. The fact that Mr. Garner chose not to comply with those demands/warnings is on him, not the cops.
He was standing around on the sidewalk. I saw this mentioned the other day so I will not claim it as mine. This shows where the government is willing to kill you over a violation no matter how petty. That's the system you support? Are you a big authoritarian government type of guy?
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