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Old Today, 08:38 AM
 
79,457 posts, read 33,670,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Have principles, not positions.
I defend my principles.
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Old Today, 08:39 AM
 
79,457 posts, read 33,670,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Ryu View Post
What about self responsibility??
I asked you a question first. If you will not answer my questions to you, I am under no obligation to answer yours.
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Old Today, 08:41 AM
 
2,179 posts, read 1,268,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanny Goat View Post
Right. How they could justify it is beyond understanding. I think the cops got all revved up on their adrenaline and went too far. He wasn't a risk to anyone.
His civil rights were violated. The police killed him. He told the police 11 times that he could not breathe. He was known to the police. I agree their adrenaline was way fired up. Were the other cops charged? Why didn't someone help Eric?

I respect law enforcement; but bad cops are the lowest of the low. What happened to protect and serve. Barr stepping in and making the judgment that the chokehold cop should not be charged is typical of Barr.
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Old Today, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
4,955 posts, read 3,684,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Those who marched for Civil Rights "lost" many times.

I'm generalizing here but I find many who supported the cops jumping Eric Garner over nothing being the same people that defended Cliven Bundy (I supported Bundy also). Why do you suppose that is?

Bundy used guns to defend himself and was found not guilty.
Except that his son is in jail and doing time for believing they were better than the rest of the USA. Cliven Bundy won his stand-off with a large police force as they didn't want to kill hundreds of people that day, contrary to popular beliefs, and he dropped out of the limelight when the press started running video clips of him being a total racist. His son took up the torch and tried anarchy, it didn't work.

What civil right do you suggest was violated in the case of Garner? The right to sell illegal cigarettes over and over and over again?
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Old Today, 08:54 AM
 
8,119 posts, read 5,305,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I asked you a question first. If you will not answer my questions to you, I am under no obligation to answer yours.
Your question was "Are you another big government authoritarian supporter also? "

No, i am not. There are rules and people need to follow them. In NYC, it is illegal to sell loose cigarettes.

Now, you can answer mine.
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Old Today, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
4,955 posts, read 3,684,669 times
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Federal prosecutors won’t bring civil-rights charges against a New York police officer accused of placing an unarmed black man in a deadly chokehold, Justice Department officials said Tuesday, five years after the incident became a flashpoint in a national conversation over race and policing.

Prosecutors in Brooklyn and Washington, D.C., agonized over the case for years but ultimately concluded they lacked sufficient evidence to prove New York Police Department Officer Daniel Pantaleo, who is white, willfully violated Eric Garner’s rights during the videotaped July 17, 2014, confrontation on Staten Island. Attorney General William Barr made the final call after years of disagreement among prosecutors involved in the case, a senior Justice Department official said.

“The evidence here does not support charging Police Officer Daniel Pantaleo or any other officer with a federal criminal civil-rights violation,” Richard Donoghue, the U.S. attorney in Brooklyn, said on Tuesday.

The case touched off protests in New York City and across the country, coming amid a series of highly publicized incidents of police use-of-force against unarmed black men in cities such as Baltimore and Ferguson, Mo. Few of those cases resulted in charges against the officers, further straining the already tense relationship between police and their communities.


‘Our lives don’t matter,’ said Gwen Carr, Eric Garner’s mother, on Tuesday after federal prosecutors declined to bring civil-rights charges against the officer accused of killing her son. Mr. Garner’s repeated cries of “I can’t breathe” during his arrest became a rallying cry for activists.

The Garner case underscores the difficulty of successfully prosecuting police officers in any administration. Of officers charged, most aren’t convicted. State prosecutors charged six Baltimore police officers for their alleged roles in the 2015 death of Freddie Gray in a police van. Three were acquitted, and prosecutors dropped the charges against the other three. The Justice Department declined to pursue civil-rights charges against them. Similarly, in Tulsa, Okla., jurors acquitted an officer who was charged with manslaughter after fatally shooting an unarmed black man in 2016.

Still, officers involved in killings have in many cases faced internal punishments by their police departments as agencies grapple with use of force. Some changed their polices to focus more heavily on de-escalation after such racially charged incidents, over the objections of police unions who said it puts officers in danger.

Mr. Pantaleo attempted to arrest Mr. Garner, believing he was selling untaxed cigarettes. During the resulting altercation, Mr. Pantaleo used force, resulting in both men falling to the ground and the officer wrapping his arm around Mr. Garner’s neck. The New York City medical examiner ruled the death a homicide.

A lawyer for Mr. Pantaleo has said he acted lawfully and that Mr. Garner died from health complications. The lawyer said his client didn’t use a chokehold but rather a “seat belt maneuver,” which he said was a justified use of force against someone resisting arrest.

In evaluating the case, the Justice Department focused on whether the use of force was objectively reasonable and if Mr. Pantaleo acted willfully in violation of the law, Mr. Donoghue said. He said that the law recognizes that police officers must make split-second judgments. The law has an even higher bar for proving “willfulness,” or that an officer’s actions were more than misperception, poor judgment or fear, he added.

Prosecutors from the Justice Department’s civil-rights division had long recommended charging the officer, but those in Brooklyn consistently believed they lacked enough evidence, the official said. Federal prosecutors in Brooklyn met with Mr. Garner’s family Tuesday morning.

Mr. Garner’s mother, Gwen Carr, called the decision not to pursue charges politically motivated. “Our lives don’t matter,” Ms. Carr said. “And look what administration we’re under. This should’ve been taken care of years ago.”

Civil-rights advocates have been closely watching how the Justice Department under President Trump would handle the case. Mr. Trump campaigned on a platform that included support for police, and state and local officers remain some of his strongest supporters.

President Obama’s attorney general, Eric Holder, who was in office at the time of Mr. Garner’s death, supported charging Mr. Pantaleo. But civil-rights prosecutors faced resistance from federal prosecutors in Brooklyn under then-U.S. attorney Loretta Lynch, who said they weren’t sure there was enough evidence to bring a case they could win. When Ms. Lynch succeeded Mr. Holder, prosecutors from the civil-rights division, led by Vanita Gupta, urged her to reconsider. Ms. Lynch then replaced the team of FBI agents and prosecutors handling the case with those from outside of New York.

The case continued to drag on under Mr. Trump’s first attorney general Jeff Sessions. Last year, the civil-rights division sent a memo to then-Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein recommending charges against Mr. Pantaleo but he didn’t move forward with the case.

Source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/justice...se-11563285249
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Old Today, 09:03 AM
 
79,457 posts, read 33,670,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseManOnceSaid View Post
Except that his son is in jail and doing time for believing they were better than the rest of the USA. Cliven Bundy won his stand-off with a large police force as they didn't want to kill hundreds of people that day, contrary to popular beliefs, and he dropped out of the limelight when the press started running video clips of him being a total racist. His son took up the torch and tried anarchy, it didn't work.

What civil right do you suggest was violated in the case of Garner? The right to sell illegal cigarettes over and over and over again?
I will not discuss things with someone who insists on arguing things they know are not true. It just shows you understand you have no argument.
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Old Today, 09:08 AM
 
79,457 posts, read 33,670,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Ryu View Post
Your question was "Are you another big government authoritarian supporter also? "

No, i am not. There are rules and people need to follow them. In NYC, it is illegal to sell loose cigarettes.

Now, you can answer mine.
I will first have to address what you said. He was NOT selling loose cigarettes when approached. I believe you know this but still persist. Do you want to discuss this honestly or not?

I had already answered your question. Arrested 1000 times he still possesses his civil rights. The police do not have the right to demand you prove you are not doing something they suspect you might be without justification.

"We have caught you in the past" is not a justification. His family got a huge settlement because his civil rights are violated. Cities routinely pay out millions and millions in settlements for violating people's civil rights. You support the continuation of this? This is not something we should address?
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Old Today, 09:15 AM
 
8,119 posts, read 5,305,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I will first have to address what you said. He was NOT selling loose cigarettes when approached. I believe you know this but still persist. Do you want to discuss this honestly or not?

I had already answered your question. Arrested 1000 times he still possesses his civil rights. The police do not have the right to demand you prove you are not doing something they suspect you might be without justification.

"We have caught you in the past" is not a justification. His family got a huge settlement because his civil rights are violated. Cities routinely pay out millions and millions in settlements for violating people's civil rights. You support the continuation of this? This is not something we should address?
When did i state he was selling loose cigs?? I stated the business that he was standing in front of called the cops on him.

Also, my question was "Would you be ok with a guy selling loose cigarettes in front of your home/apt complex???"
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Old Today, 09:17 AM
 
79,457 posts, read 33,670,997 times
Reputation: 15897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Ryu View Post
When did i state he was selling loose cigs?? I stated the business that he was standing in front of called the cops on him.
No they didn't. They had in the past but the police were called over a fight.

Quote:
Also, my question was "Would you be ok with a guy selling loose cigarettes in front of your home/apt complex???"
Being as I see it as no crime, I see it as the over reach of an authoritarian government I would have to say I am OK with it.
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