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Old Yesterday, 11:32 AM
 
79,457 posts, read 33,688,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
OK, then, how do you advocate "stopping" it?
Violate someone's civil rights and it ends in you getting fired. Our civil rights are that important.

If in that violation you harm someone, the repercussions get stronger.
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Old Yesterday, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Boston
7,935 posts, read 2,303,397 times
Reputation: 5660
it was better for the whole neighborhood he was put down. Selling cigarettes to kids? 30+ arrests?

What a moron. The worlds a better place without Eric Garner.
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Old Yesterday, 11:35 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
8,856 posts, read 7,982,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Violate someone's civil rights and it ends in you getting fired. Our civil rights are that important.

If in that violation you harm someone, the repercussions get stronger.


How do you intend to enact that change in departmental and legislative action, though?


Also, when/who/how do you get to the decision on whether someone's civil rights were violated? Remember, you just scolded me for advocating using the courts and legal system....
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Old Yesterday, 11:40 AM
 
10,686 posts, read 2,733,880 times
Reputation: 7207
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
NO, this idea has to stop. It is not acceptable to have a policy of simply allowing the police to violate the civil rights of the citizens and then let the courts sort it out.

I can't believe anyone actually takes this position.
Yes...Ive said this numerous times as well, People should NOT be allowing police all this leeway!


If they are violating your rights...you sort it out RIGHT THERE ON THE SPOT!!!!, not just allow them to arrest you and sort it out in court, that is giving them way too much leverage!
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Old Yesterday, 11:41 AM
 
79,457 posts, read 33,688,908 times
Reputation: 15897
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
How do you intend to enact that change in departmental and legislative action, though?
Force if need be. While I do not support the harming of individuals outside of direct self defense, I have no problem with people breaking things.

I can't understand why everyone does not support that and then there would be no need for force.

Quote:
Also, when/who/how do you get to the decision on whether someone's civil rights were violated? Remember, you just scolded me for advocating using the courts and legal system....
No, I scolded you for advocating the idea that you should just allow a police officer to violate your civil liberties. Yes, even a police officer accused of violating a persons civil liberties gets his day in court.
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Old Yesterday, 11:43 AM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
9,859 posts, read 21,158,402 times
Reputation: 9421
Garner shouldn't have refused to stop illegal sells on public sidewalk but he didn't deserve to die in a martial arts choke hold. Very excessive use of force. I'd at least like it to go to trial.
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Old Yesterday, 12:06 PM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
8,856 posts, read 7,982,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Force if need be. While I do not support the harming of individuals outside of direct self defense, I have no problem with people breaking things.

I can't understand why everyone does not support that and then there would be no need for force.

"Breaking things"? Please be specific. I support peacefully protesting civil rights violations. I DO NOT support destruction of property that doesn't belong to you.





Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
No, I scolded you for advocating the idea that you should just allow a police officer to violate your civil liberties. Yes, even a police officer accused of violating a persons civil liberties gets his day in court.
So, how do I stop a police officer from "violating my civil rights"? Physical resistance? That's a dangerous roll of the dice, as we have seen.
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Old Yesterday, 12:15 PM
 
79,457 posts, read 33,688,908 times
Reputation: 15897
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
"Breaking things"? Please be specific. I support peacefully protesting civil rights violations. I DO NOT support destruction of property that doesn't belong to you.
Public property does belong to you.

Quote:
So, how do I stop a police officer from "violating my civil rights"? Physical resistance? That's a dangerous roll of the dice, as we have seen.
When you hold people accountable for something, it becomes less so. If you want to argue that police officers are no different than the local drug user, I disagree.

IMO the majority understand and do not violate people's rights. People tell the police "no" all the time and do not get jumped. There is a good video around where a woman tells a border patrol officer no, over and over. She has to be persistent but she finally gets sent along.

It's not illegal for a police officer to ask you to see what is in your pocket. If he does not have a valid reason then it is not illegal for you to say no.

Even in the best run system there will be grey areas. This one was not.
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Old Yesterday, 12:19 PM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
8,856 posts, read 7,982,242 times
Reputation: 3796
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Public property does belong to you.

Not only to me, though. It also belongs to you and any other taxpayer concerned. I don't have the right to destroy your property. Correct?



Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
When you hold people accountable for something, it becomes less so. If you want to argue that police officers are no different than the local drug user, I disagree.

IMO the majority understand and do not violate people's rights. People tell the police "no" all the time and do not get jumped. There is a good video around where a woman tells a border patrol officer no, over and over. She has to be persistent but she finally gets sent along.

It's not illegal for a police officer to ask you to see what is in your pocket. If he does not have a valid reason then it is not illegal for you to say no.

Even in the best run system there will be grey areas. This one was not.

So, Garner should have said "no". Got it. What if the police persisted with taking him into custody? Then what?
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Old Yesterday, 12:21 PM
 
79,457 posts, read 33,688,908 times
Reputation: 15897
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
Not only to me, though. It also belongs to you and any other taxpayer concerned. I don't have the right to destroy your property. Correct?
I already stated you could in protest.

Quote:
So, Garner should have said "no". Got it. What if the police persisted with taking him into custody? Then what?
The way it should be is that they lose their jobs. Eric did not have that kind of system backing him.
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