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Old Yesterday, 12:25 PM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
8,875 posts, read 7,982,242 times
Reputation: 3796

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I already stated you could in protest.

We will certainly agree to disagree on that front! I absolutely do not consent to you destroying my property - in protest or any other scenario. What an odd position to take.



Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
The way it should be is that they lose their jobs. Eric did not have that kind of system backing him.

And now we're back to how to enact that change in departmental and/or legislative action.


It also does not address you would have had Mr. Garner do in the moment of his arrest.
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Old Yesterday, 12:29 PM
 
79,494 posts, read 33,688,908 times
Reputation: 15909
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
We will certainly agree to disagree on that front! I absolutely do not consent to you destroying my property - in protest or any other scenario. What an odd position to take.
I respect and understand that.

Quote:
And now we're back to how to enact that change in departmental and/or legislative action.


It also does not address you would have had Mr. Garner do in the moment of his arrest.
What he should have been able to do.

"Are we being recorded"?

Yes.

"Why are you wanting to search me, what did I do"?

"So even though you did not see me do anything illegal and no one told you I did anything illegal, you still insist on violating my civil rights"?

IMO, it ends 99.9% of the time right there if we hold police officers accountable for violating a persons rights. Once I got those questions answered, I'd let them take me in if they still insist.

We do not have that kind of system in place.
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Old Yesterday, 12:32 PM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
8,875 posts, read 7,982,242 times
Reputation: 3796
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I respect and understand that.

Thank you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
What he should have been able to do.

"Are we being recorded"?

Yes.

"Why are you wanting to search me, what did I do"?

"So even though you did not see me do anything illegal and no one told you I did anything illegal, you still insist on violating my civil rights"?

IMO, it ends 99.9% of the time right there if we hold police officers accountable for violating a persons rights. Once I got those questions answered, I'd let them take me in if they still insist.

We do not have that kind of system in place.


Well, we don't know how that would have turned out, because that's not what Mr. Garner did. Correct?
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Old Yesterday, 12:34 PM
 
79,494 posts, read 33,688,908 times
Reputation: 15909
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
Well, we don't know how that would have turned out, because that's not what Mr. Garner did. Correct?
No he didn't. He did do what he is legally permitted to do though. He knew there would be no repercussions to the police officers for violating his rights.
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Old Yesterday, 12:41 PM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
8,875 posts, read 7,982,242 times
Reputation: 3796
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
No he didn't. He did do what he is legally permitted to do though. He knew there would be no repercussions to the police officers for violating his rights.


I don't know NYC's law, but he's not necessarily legally permitted to resist arrest, even an "illegal arrest".




What Should I Do if I am Arrested Unlawfully?

Because of the limits in many states, resisting an unlawful arrest can be a very risky thing. In most states, it will still be a crime to resist a police officer, even if the arrest would be illegal. It can be very difficult to know under what circumstance, if any, it is permissible to resist arrest and what amount of force can be used. Because of this, if you are being arrested you should go peacefully. If you then feel that you have been wrongfully arrested, you can file a complaint for police misconduct.


https://www.legalmatch.com/law-libra...ul-arrest.html






Your ESP about what Garner did and didn't "know" are impressive. My telepathy is not nearly so strong.
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Old Yesterday, 12:45 PM
 
79,494 posts, read 33,688,908 times
Reputation: 15909
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
Your ESP about what Garner did and didn't "know" are impressive. My telepathy is not nearly so strong.
What he knew is irrelevant. Your rights are not based upon you fully understanding them. They just are.
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Old Yesterday, 12:51 PM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
8,875 posts, read 7,982,242 times
Reputation: 3796
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
What he knew is irrelevant. Your rights are not based upon you fully understanding them. They just are.


You said he knew there would be no repercussions for them violating his rights. We're talking about his knowledge of the repercussions, not the rights themselves.


Can you legally resist arrest in New York?




For example, in New York it’s a misdemeanor to intentionally prevent a police officer “from effecting an authorized arrest.” (N.Y. Penal Law § 205.30.) In that state, an arrest is “authorized” if the police have probable cause to believe that the suspect has broken the law, even if the suspect actually hasn’t. So, whether or not a suspect has broken the law, if the police had probable cause to arrest him and he resisted, he’s guilty of a crime. (People v. Laltoo, 801 N.Y.S.2d 591 (2005).)


https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...ul-arrest.html
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Old Yesterday, 12:55 PM
 
10,695 posts, read 2,733,880 times
Reputation: 7207
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
I don't know NYC's law, but he's not necessarily legally permitted to resist arrest, even an "illegal arrest".




What Should I Do if I am Arrested Unlawfully?

Because of the limits in many states, resisting an unlawful arrest can be a very risky thing. In most states, it will still be a crime to resist a police officer, even if the arrest would be illegal. It can be very difficult to know under what circumstance, if any, it is permissible to resist arrest and what amount of force can be used. Because of this, if you are being arrested you should go peacefully. If you then feel that you have been wrongfully arrested, you can file a complaint for police misconduct.


https://www.legalmatch.com/law-libra...ul-arrest.html






Your ESP about what Garner did and didn't "know" are impressive. My telepathy is not nearly so strong.
I think our Bill of rights gives us some protection from this kind of thing.
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Old Yesterday, 12:59 PM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
8,875 posts, read 7,982,242 times
Reputation: 3796
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I think our Bill of rights gives us some protection from this kind of thing.


What kind of thing, specifically?
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Old Yesterday, 01:04 PM
 
79,494 posts, read 33,688,908 times
Reputation: 15909
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
You said he knew there would be no repercussions for them violating his rights. We're talking about his knowledge of the repercussions, not the rights themselves.


Can you legally resist arrest in New York?




For example, in New York it’s a misdemeanor to intentionally prevent a police officer “from effecting an authorized arrest.” (N.Y. Penal Law § 205.30.) In that state, an arrest is “authorized” if the police have probable cause to believe that the suspect has broken the law, even if the suspect actually hasn’t. So, whether or not a suspect has broken the law, if the police had probable cause to arrest him and he resisted, he’s guilty of a crime. (People v. Laltoo, 801 N.Y.S.2d 591 (2005).)


https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...ul-arrest.html
This was not a legally authorized arrest. Garner told them they had no cause to harass them. Anyone arrested as many times as him likely knew his rights.
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