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Old 07-17-2019, 01:29 AM
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
15,360 posts, read 12,699,988 times
Reputation: 27345


Scam to make people rich. Nothing more.

Old 07-17-2019, 08:53 AM
357 posts, read 162,266 times
Reputation: 819
Maybe it's because most people who believe we must act now are young and don't really have any substantial savings.
Old 07-17-2019, 09:12 AM
5,928 posts, read 2,189,352 times
Reputation: 7476
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
For the record, I am skeptical of climate change being a danger. I'm also not interested in debating it or explaining my reasons why.
I agree, there's not much to debate.

There is 99.99999% certainty that mankind is changing the global climate system. That's a hard scientific fact. The science is settled. source: (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKCN1QE1ZU)

Climate change is here today. We are seeing extreme weather occur more frequently and with greater severity. Change change isn't just causing property damage, it's starting to kill people.

This is not alarmism. It's 100% factual. If people don't want to accept facts on the ground as they are, that's their problem.
Old 07-17-2019, 09:31 AM
13,614 posts, read 4,707,436 times
Reputation: 6675
Originally Posted by Montroller View Post
You are most likely getting these reactions becasue you are asking an obtuse question.
Because this is about the silliest thing I've ever read.

It shows me that you clearly have no understanding on the implications the planet is currently experiencing due to human caused climate change or what the future implications are going to be.

Exactly what do you think a person can buy that will enable them and their family to survive the effects of human caused global warming?
A plot of land at a higher altitude and build a small farm on it?
Old 07-17-2019, 09:37 AM
Location: New Mexico
7,143 posts, read 3,958,114 times
Reputation: 13515
The term "imminent danger" is OP's snarky problem, not ours. No one thinks this is going to happen next week or next year or maybe ten years but our grandchildren will have to deal with the effects and problems caused by our failure to act. There are subtle and not-so-subtle indications of what the future will be like. There will be mass migrations of climate refugees -- millions on the move. If people are unhappy with our immigration problems now their head will explode when a million climate refugees arrive. The infrastructure cost of protecting coastal cities will be astronomical. Climate instability will make us susceptible to mega-storms and the effects of a massive volcanic eruption (random as it may be) would have a global climate impact.

"Prudence dictates that if you believe this, you would liquidate that cash and use it prepare to the best of your ability, whether that means being a "prepper" or helping to create a self-sustaining community of like-minded individuals." Your premise that we need to cash in our 401k to buy cans of soup or stockpile sandbags or maybe razor-ribbon is ridiculous. We need a united focus with priority efforts and leadership to carry it out. There will be sacrifices and we will need to find a way to make those tolerable. Global-scale disruption will most likely be incremental, barring some natural calamity, so I have to think that sharp financial minds will get things figured out regarding OP's 401k.
Old 07-17-2019, 09:40 AM
Location: Milwaukee
5,014 posts, read 2,294,731 times
Reputation: 3180
I have noticed a lot of "new members" lately here on City-Data forum.
Old 07-17-2019, 09:51 AM
243 posts, read 43,918 times
Reputation: 347
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
Exactly my point! That is what I've found. When I corner people and ask them why they aren't liquidating assets and buying things to prepare, I get blank stares. Yet these same people tell me with a straight face that in 10 - 20 years we are all screwed!

Originally Posted by Northman83 View Post
We are not going to suffer that much the next 10-20-30 years.

However, by 2100 there will be 4 Billion more people.

5 Billion in Asia
4 Billion in Africa
1 Billion in Europe / US
1 Billion mixed, uncertain

What happens when weather patterns change so much that food production is not possible in regions that previously produced most of their food? Or drought... or ground water pollution with salt water...

There will be HUNDREDS of million of migrants, that will be desperately trying to get to places where food is still somewhat affordable and temperate climate.

That means Northern Europe and North America / Canada, parts of Asia

China might pull it of, they are investing such enormous sums because they know what is going to come.

Do you belive your grandchildren will just stand by and see the potential death of tens of millions of people in poorer countries? Or will they do the humane thing and let hundreds of millions of Africans, South American, Asians into North America..

Maybe they will feel some shame, and do it, because their grand parents where told for 60+ years that they could actually do something about it, but just didn't care?


Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post

Maybe this is what keeps happening. You ask people "WHy aren't you preparing for it? If it's coming in the next 10-20 years?" and they say "no, no, you don't understand. We're heading down that path, it will get worse over the next 10-20 years...there's nothing to "survive" until after we are all dead. But we SHOULD prepare for future civilization. My little 401K isn't going to do anything to save the planet. The Planet needs to work together to save it's future" and then you're response is to just stare blankly for a few moments and say "why won't anyone answer my question??"
Old 07-17-2019, 09:56 AM
5,928 posts, read 2,189,352 times
Reputation: 7476
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
Wrong! Actually severe weather results are down. Perhaps you are confusing this with more people choosing to live in harms way or the ability of the internet and modern technology to make you more aware of events around the world than people in the past could utilize.

If you have reputable science-based links to support your claim, I would welcome them. Otherwise, you're just pulling nonsense out of your...
Old 07-17-2019, 10:04 AM
7,390 posts, read 2,675,802 times
Reputation: 4061
Take it bac to the original question and ask it in a less reductio ad absurdum way - if you truly believe that the dangers of MMGW are imminent and severe to some degree between "really annoying" and "cataclysmic", then what are you personally doing to mitigate those imminent and somehow severe effects for yourself ad your loved ones?

Example - the doomsday prepper who is convinced some form of societal breakdown is imminent. They buy tubs of 25+ year powdered meals, check off all the supplies needed per any number of survival guides, build underground shelters, make bugout bags, collect weapons and ammunition, etc. They have a belief in imminent catastrophe and spend money/time/effort preparing for the world as they envision it will become. Their actions align with their thoughts.

That is the basis of the OP question. The thought/rhetoric of the MMGW alarmist is most severe, yet the actions of these folks don't align with the thoughts/rhetoric. So what gives? The only action seems to be demanding other people do things to forestall the catastrophe that is imminent, but there seems to be virtually no action taken at the individual level in case the demands on others don't pan out and the catastrophe still happens. I would think the MMGW alarmist would be of similar mindset as a doomsday prepper, thus have a similar action plan.

Why is the MMGW alarmist NOT stocking up on 25+ year shelf life meals, given one of the predictions is global food shortage? Hell, that seems to make sense even if you just worry about a hurricane/flood/tornado type of event that will leave you isolated from normal resupply for some amount of time. It surely makes sense if you honestly believe a global cataclysm is imminent.

I guess the theme is that the overall survival/preparedness buzz is quite low, wile the "omfg, the world am teh ending" rhetoric is quite high, which is pretty incongruous, eh?
Old 07-17-2019, 10:10 AM
Location: Missouri, USA
4,558 posts, read 3,081,337 times
Reputation: 2146
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
If my thread is absurd, why are many young adults refusing to have children and citing climate change as the reason? That's pretty near-term!
#1.Have you actually ever met an adult who refuses to have children entirely because of overpopulation? I haven't. I'm talking about in person, not over the internet. Even if there are people doing that...that's not an unsound strategy, necessarily. It partly depends on how much the nation needs youth to pay cash into the system, but fewer people could probably do the planet some good.

#2. 10-20 years is different from 40-60 years. That's also different from 70-100 years, and that's different from 100-140 years.

Note this article titled "High Likelihood of Human Civilization Coming to an End Starting in 2050." That title's pretty incendiary...but note the wording "starting in 2050." Yeah, they're vampirizing attention...but they're not talking about the world ending in 2050. They're talking about a very dangerous snowball effect starting at some point.

That link leads to another link which leads to this paper: https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/148cb...3a88da04d4.pdf

The writer claims that after nuclear war, global warming is the greatest threat to life on Earth. He argues that we must build a zero C02 output industrial system very quickly.

He argues that the IPCC report of 0.2 degrees celsius annual increase in global temperature is too conservative. He argues that the IPCC anticipated global temperature increase of 1.5 degrees Celsius by 2040 is likely to be passed in half that time, around 2030.

Keep in mind, climate scientists aren't talking about Earth turning into Venus anytime soon. They're talking about a few degrees increase over several decades.

He says that with commitments to the Paris Climate Accords, the IPCC argues that we're on track for a 3 degrees Celsius increase by 2100. He also says that the IPCC doesn't take feedback loops into account that would make that 5 degrees Celsius by 2100.

He has this to say about a 4 degree Celsius global temperature increase:

Scientists warn that warming of 4°C is incompatible with an organised global community, is devastating to the majority of ecosystems, and has a high probability of not being stable. The World Bank says it may be “beyond adaptation”.

He doesn't think the human species will go extinct...but he thinks there is a big risk our civilization will end, as far as its current form is concerned, if climate change is left unchecked.

But, how might only a few degrees in temperature harm so many people? Well, in the paper it says that according to the "Global Challenges Foundations Global Catastrophic Risks 2018 report" even for 2 degrees of warming, more than a billion people may need to relocated due to icecaps melting resulting in sea rise.

A huge percentage of people live on the coasts. Regardless of how long it takes for ice caps to melt...that's going to cause a lot of damage. Then there's also the fact that, if the air is humid enough, it really doesn't need to be that hot for you not to be able to work outside for long. I'm not sure about the specifics of how that works...but that could render large chunks of the world uninhabitable for many people, particularly people without air-conditioning. Then there's climate change altering terrain and making some areas much wetter but other areas much drier. The thing about that is...if you live in a dessert, you're already used to living in a dessert. You don't need it to turn into a lush grassland. But if you live in one of the breadbaskets of the world and that turns into a dessert, that's an enormous problem.

The thing is...it may not be that long after we're dead that the problems start to pile up, but it'll mostly begin really piling up after most of us are dead.

So...it is kind of a short term problem...just not as short term of a problem as would hit us in the next 20 years. The thing is though, it will take time to implement any strategies for dealing with climate change, and some feedback loops stand a very good chance of getting set off and continuing to increase temperatures another degree or two or so even if humans would find a way to adopt 0 carbon output, and the longer it takes to adopt a very low carbon output, the more feedback loops will likely be triggered.

Also...there's no way we're gong to adopt 0 carbon output anytime this century, including if we develop fusion power, which would be a form of clean energy without the nuclear waste of nuclear power, so the increasing of temperature will, I'm certain, continue to increase after that 2100 mark. I figure, best case scenario, we won't increase our carbon output by 2100 from what it is today.

So, it's a long, slow creeping threat that builds up slowly, but one that can start snowballing, possibly in unexpected ways.

Note that I'm not saying that paper I linked to is correct. I haven't looked into it to see how accurate it might be. I'm just using it as an example.

Last edited by Clintone; 07-17-2019 at 10:33 AM..
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