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Old 07-17-2019, 10:10 AM
 
6,831 posts, read 3,524,605 times
Reputation: 7025

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When democrat climate alarmists start actually walking the talk, I’ll start taking it more seriously.
Barbra Streisand, a climate alarmist and activist, just flew her three dogs on a SEPARATE private jet over 10,000 Miles so they could hear her concert.
Al Gore has the carbon footprint of Godzilla.
Oprah,another climate activist, has at least six mega mansions wasting huge amounts of resources.
How many liberal celebrities, and politicians drive around in stretch limos,
Have private planes, multiple huge mansions, conspicuous consumption etc etc etc

 
Old 07-17-2019, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,594 posts, read 3,096,498 times
Reputation: 2165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Take it bac to the original question and ask it in a less reductio ad absurdum way - if you truly believe that the dangers of MMGW are imminent and severe to some degree between "really annoying" and "cataclysmic", then what are you personally doing to mitigate those imminent and somehow severe effects for yourself ad your loved ones?

Example - the doomsday prepper who is convinced some form of societal breakdown is imminent. They buy tubs of 25+ year powdered meals, check off all the supplies needed per any number of survival guides, build underground shelters, make bugout bags, collect weapons and ammunition, etc. They have a belief in imminent catastrophe and spend money/time/effort preparing for the world as they envision it will become. Their actions align with their thoughts.

That is the basis of the OP question. The thought/rhetoric of the MMGW alarmist is most severe, yet the actions of these folks don't align with the thoughts/rhetoric. So what gives? The only action seems to be demanding other people do things to forestall the catastrophe that is imminent, but there seems to be virtually no action taken at the individual level in case the demands on others don't pan out and the catastrophe still happens. I would think the MMGW alarmist would be of similar mindset as a doomsday prepper, thus have a similar action plan.

Why is the MMGW alarmist NOT stocking up on 25+ year shelf life meals, given one of the predictions is global food shortage? Hell, that seems to make sense even if you just worry about a hurricane/flood/tornado type of event that will leave you isolated from normal resupply for some amount of time. It surely makes sense if you honestly believe a global cataclysm is imminent.

I guess the theme is that the overall survival/preparedness buzz is quite low, wile the "omfg, the world am teh ending" rhetoric is quite high, which is pretty incongruous, eh?
Because the problems are mostly going to start really snowballing after most of us are dead. Also...have you noticed the people frantically trying to convince everyone that manmade global warming is a problem?
 
Old 07-17-2019, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,594 posts, read 3,096,498 times
Reputation: 2165
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
When democrat climate alarmists start actually walking the talk, I’ll start taking it more seriously.
Barbra Streisand, a climate alarmist and activist, just flew her three dogs on a SEPARATE private jet over 10,000 Miles so they could hear her concert.
Al Gore has the carbon footprint of Godzilla.
Oprah,another climate activist, has at least six mega mansions wasting huge amounts of resources.
How many liberal celebrities, and politicians drive around in stretch limos,
Have private planes, multiple huge mansions, conspicuous consumption etc etc etc
If you want to do the whole "I'm not going to do anything if certain other people aren't" I can respect that. I'm not really doing much to reduce my carbon footprint. I recycle when it's convenient and about the only other thing I do related to global warming is come on to this forum and try to convince people it's occurring.

I view it kind of like how various food products are probably created through slave labor I'm too lazy to find out about, and how I buy meat products from factory farming despite it being bad for the environment, and the animals, and probably me.

All I'm primarily interested in is for people to have a more or less accurate view of what's happening.
 
Old 07-17-2019, 10:27 AM
 
86 posts, read 12,287 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
Are you serious? The premise of my argument is about people who believe that climate change will cause society to stop functioning in the near term as it grapples with the consequences. How in the world do "tax penalties" figure into that scenario?!
You are asking people why don't they cash in their 401K's that's how it factors in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
You call ME obtuse??
I did no such thing. Please read my responses carefully.
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
If society stops functioning there ARE NO 401ks nevermind tax penalties on early withdrawal. The point in raising this is, if you believe this, the money will soon be worthless anyway so why not use what you can and buy things that will do you, your family and friends some good?
Your assertions are what's causing your misdirected thinking.

Societies simply do not stop functioning when catastrophes strike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
I am speaking to the people who think that it is already too late and the damage is already in the cards and we should concentrate on adapting.
Here again you are asserting things which are causing misdirected thinking. Just because a person thinks it's too late to reduce human generated CO2, does not mean that they think we can simply adapt to the changes. How exactly are everyday people going to adapt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
For the record. I DON'T believe in that. I am a skeptic and I am seeking to understand this viewpoint.
You're asserting this viewpoint. In fact since you asked your questions from this asserted viewpoint I don't see one poster who is responding from this asserted viewpoint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
Well to start, there are groups of people who think it already too late. That in the near term, 10-20 years or so or sooner, society will unravel as a result of dealing with climate change. Crops could fail, government services that we rely on could cease, storm damage increases and displaces vast amounts of people.
Sorry to rain on your parade but impacts from climate change are happening now.

I will post one example of each from your list...please know there are many more current impacts from human caused climate change.

1. Failed Crops

Farmers across northern and central Europe are facing crop failure and bankruptcy as one of the most intense regional droughts in recent memory strengthens its grip. States of emergency have been declared in Latvia and Lithuania, while the sun continues to bake

Swedish fields that have received only 12% of their normal rainfall.

2. Government Services

Climate Change and U.S. Military Bases


3. Storms displacing people

Climate change and disaster displacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
I'm not sure how many on this particular forum believe that but I have people in my family and friends who do and I am aware that lots of people share this view.
Any reason why they shouldn't they believe it? The impacts can currently be seen all around the globe? I guess because you are not feeling the impacts in your neck of the woods you simply ignore the impacts occurring all over the globe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
The point of my post is, I've asked some of these people why they aren't ACTING like there is this huge impending emergency in their personal lives.
What exactly do you expect people who realize we are in for a rude awakening do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
If I believed this with all of my heart, I'd be preparing as best as I can. I would be liquidating whatever cash I could and using it to buy supplies of food, water, medicine, etc that would come in handy in such an environment.
Well that would be rather silly since the major impacts are most likely not going to affect you drastically in your remaining lifetime. (You stated you grew up during the cold war)
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
I'd hope to create or join a community of others doing the same. I'd have no illusions of staving off the inevitable but at least that money would do some good instead of simply disappearing into the ether.
Your plan sounds like mass hysteria. Climate change is a serious threat but encouraging mass hysteria is not the way to deal with this threat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
Again. I am not a "prepper", I don't believe climate change will be any different in the next 30 years than it was in the last 30.
It does not matter what you want to believe. That's the beauty of scientific data...it's real regardless if you want to believe it or not.

  • Eleven of the last twelve years (1995-2006) rank among the 12 warmest years ever recorded since global surface temperatures are measured (1850).
  • Over the last 100 years (1906–2005), global temperature has increased by 0.74°C.
  • Global sea level has risen by 17 cm during the 20th century, in part because of the melting of snow and ice from many mountains and in the polar regions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
This is a mental exercise to try and understand the mindset of people who DO believe this.
I don't think there are many who believe in the mass hysteria assertion plot that you've drummed up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
To put it another way.. many of these people are asking SOCIETY to make drastic, rapid, painful and unprecendented changes BUT they are not willing to do so in their own private lives!! What does THAT say?
Exactly what drastic, rapid, painful and unprecedented changes are "these" people asking society to make?
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
This whole point of view seems obtuse to me!
So far it seems that you are the only one with this point of view. You asserted this view and keep talking about it. I have not come across anyone with this view nor have I read anything on the internet even remotely close to this view you've asserted. You are the only one asserting this view on others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
You have a group of people who earnestly believe we are heading for an impending climate catastrophe and they do nothing to prepare for it.
Exactly what do you expect for them to do? Reducing human generated CO2 is the fasted solution but everyday people can't stop the rest of the world from reducing carbon emissions.

You've viewpoints are unrealistic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
furthermore, they demonize and ridicule "deniers" and "right wingers" while China and India continue to burn more coal!
People who deny facts and established scientific truths and stand in the way to solutions to impending threats should be ridiculed.

China and India burning coal have nothing to do with ridiculing deniers.

BTW China's coal consumption in 2010 was 3.2 billion metric tonnes per annum. The National Development and Reform Commission, which determines the energy policy of China, aims to keep China's coal consumption below 3.8 billion metric tonnes per annum.

You might want to read this with respect to India. At least they are talking about it.

Assessing India’s energy transition options
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
Imagine that all of the "deniers" became true believers and America was able to stop 100% of it's Co2 emissions tomorrow! It would not make the slightest difference when countries like China and India (and others) are ramping up THEIRS!!
Well since your viewpoint is totally unrealistic I see no point in wasting time imagining it. I think you need to update your knowledge with respect to China and India's carbon emissions and what they are doing to transition and lower emissions.

You are not accurate to state that if the US just magically stopped all carbon emissions that it would not make a difference.

Per Capita in 2015 the US is the second largest emitter. Each Country's Share of CO2 Emissions

The song remains the same in 2018. Fossil CO2 emissions of all world countries, 2018 report
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
The whole debate seems ridiculous and illogical.
You mean the debate you conjured up and asserted?
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
If I believed in this, I'd be preparing for it NOW and my anger would not be directed at "deniers" or right wingers but at China and India.
If you believed your asserted viewpoint there is not much you could do to prepare for the impacts other than making mass hysteria bad decisions.

Last edited by Montroller; 07-17-2019 at 10:53 AM..
 
Old 07-17-2019, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
2,139 posts, read 3,904,701 times
Reputation: 3724
I am very concerned about it and have factored it in significantly when I decided I needed to leave my former job. I moved from Florida to Massachusetts and looked for a town off the coast and for a house on a hill.
 
Old 07-17-2019, 10:47 AM
 
86 posts, read 12,287 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
...and there is also scientific data that contradicts what you think is absolute.
Please post it vs. simply talking about it.

It's clear you don't understand what science is. Science is rarely, if ever, 'settled'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
Science is also not infallible, immune to corruption, groupthink or bias.
People hold these traits not science. Science is not a human.
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
I don't want to go down this line of debate because that is not what the OP is about. I'm just tired of this logical fallacy of appeal to authority that is constantly trotted out in these discussions to shut down debate.
The nature of the scientific method – whereby hypotheses are routinely questioned, tested, refined and retested – is such that understanding is improved over time.

The peer-review process is central to this by minimizing the chance of low quality science being published – and eventually self-corrects any that does.
 
Old 07-17-2019, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
14,011 posts, read 5,753,368 times
Reputation: 5562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
The thing about that is...if you live in a dessert, you're already used to living in a dessert. You don't need it to turn into a lush grassland. But if you live in one of the breadbaskets of the world and that turns into a dessert, that's an enormous problem.
It would be hard to get used to living in a dessert, especially if it were ice cream. You’d probably get hypothermia pretty quickly. Living in a chocolate cake would just be awkward.

A dessert turning into a lush grassland would be something to see.

If the breadbaskets of the world turn into desserts, it means less bread but more brownies. Yum!
 
Old 07-17-2019, 10:50 AM
 
86 posts, read 12,287 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowGirl View Post
I am very concerned about it and have factored it in significantly when I decided I needed to leave my former job. I moved from Florida to Massachusetts and looked for a town off the coast and for a house on a hill.
Exactly! We would never think to buy a house or retire on any coasts!
 
Old 07-17-2019, 11:05 AM
 
2,853 posts, read 950,171 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
For the record, I am skeptical of climate change being a danger. I'm also not interested in debating it or explaining my reasons why. There are plenty of people on both sides of this issue who have spent plenty of time doing that here and elsewhere.
No. My question is for those who honestly and earnestly believe this is an imminent problem. I have plenty in my own family and among friends. One of them just sent me a copy of a book by David Wallace Wells out of the blue and implored me to read it.



My question for them is a simple one but it's always met with blank stares, silence and it always catches them off guard.

If you honestly believe we are facing imminent catastrophe, why don't you prepare for it by cashing out your 401k, liquidating your assets and using the money that will soon be worthless to BUY things that will enable you and your family to survive or at least suffer less?

.
This is a legitimate question. I also don't want to debate climate change because in my mind the science is pretty clear. I want to focus on what to do about it. But first I want to clarify one point: nobody is saying the world will end in 10 or 20 years. They are saying that if we don't do something in 10-20 years, it will be too late to reach the goal set by the IFCC, which is to keep warming below 2 degrees celsius or whatever by 2100. That's all.

I assume we're not going to doing anything to stop it, so I've tried to research what the impact of those 2 degrees will be on my life. Higher sea level and more frequent heat waves. And the most severe effects won't be until the end of the century, and I'll be long gone. So why would I cash in my 401k?

The best thing I can do is vote for candidates who want to invest in developing new technologies to reduce or mitigate climate change, so that by the time my grandkids are grown we'll have a solution.
 
Old 07-17-2019, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,594 posts, read 3,096,498 times
Reputation: 2165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
It would be hard to get used to living in a dessert, especially if it were ice cream. You’d probably get hypothermia pretty quickly. Living in a chocolate cake would just be awkward.

A dessert turning into a lush grassland would be something to see.

If the breadbaskets of the world turn into desserts, it means less bread but more brownies. Yum!
crap...

I do that sort of stuff all the time.
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