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Old 07-17-2019, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
2,080 posts, read 3,882,001 times
Reputation: 3637

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
There's the alarmist rhetoric, and still, nobody describing what they are doing to prepare for the coming catastrophe that is associated with SHATTERING TEMPERATURE RECORDS!!!!
I responded previously about moving away from Florida and buying a house off the coast and on a hill, but to be fair I did not explain my thinking. These decisions were based on climate change, including rising temperatures, that have increased hurricane activity (after 15 years in Florida and being hit by hurricanes multiple times) and rising sea levels. Hence I specifically avoided towns such as Marshfield, MA, which will be underwater as sea levels rise. I also have enough land for a decent sized garden, which I plan to start planting next year. I think a lot of people are taking climate change into account in this way. I think the OP asked whether people who believe in climate change are pulling money out of their 401ks, etc. - how would that help? I believe the implication is that if someone isn't preparing as one would for a zombie apocalypse then that person doesn't "really" believe climate change is happening. I don't think that is a proper inference for all kinds of reasons. I know other people like me who are making changes on the basis of climate change but they aren't showy changes. How would an armory help me prepare for climate change? Also, not everyone has the resources to relocate or take other steps they might otherwise take.

 
Old 07-17-2019, 01:42 PM
 
86 posts, read 12,104 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli34 View Post
OP: Easy, scientists are not saying we are in imminent danger. That’s the right wing media creating that narrative.
Exactly they are the true alarmists.
 
Old 07-17-2019, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
13,919 posts, read 5,715,900 times
Reputation: 5495
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
And where will the water come from for the farm? Water tables everywhere are getting depleted. Surface water is over-subscribed. One of the biggest effects of climate change is that fresh water availability will be severely impacted. Americans will get to experience anti-immigration policies because we will all be clamoring to get into Canada and Canada is going to lock down its border just like Trump is doing.
We still have access to the Great Lakes.
 
Old 07-17-2019, 01:52 PM
 
2,977 posts, read 1,103,923 times
Reputation: 4155
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
For the record, I am skeptical of climate change being a danger. I'm also not interested in debating it or explaining my reasons why. There are plenty of people on both sides of this issue who have spent plenty of time doing that here and elsewhere.
No. My question is for those who honestly and earnestly believe this is an imminent problem. I have plenty in my own family and among friends. One of them just sent me a copy of a book by David Wallace Wells out of the blue and implored me to read it.



My question for them is a simple one but it's always met with blank stares, silence and it always catches them off guard.

If you honestly believe we are facing imminent catastrophe, why don't you prepare for it by cashing out your 401k, liquidating your assets and using the money that will soon be worthless to BUY things that will enable you and your family to survive or at least suffer less?

Put your money where your mouth.. or your mindset is!
I'm not being facetious here either. I sincerely do not get the disconnect between people who think we have 10-20 years at the most before society changes drastically and things like 401ks and investments become worthless and their hesitancy to take action.

My grandfather always told me.. "Don't listen to what people SAY, pay attention to what they DO!"
I don't see my alarmist relatives, friends and coworkers making life decisions like this is an imminent crisis. I don't see the Michael Manns or AL Gore's of the world doing so either.


I work in finance and deal alot with 401ks and retirement planning. I know very many people live paycheck to paycheck but have a small fortune tied up in a 401k or some sort of retirement account.
Some people sincerely and devoutly believe that we are headed for a climate disaster or emergency in the near term.. at least LONG before they would cash out this savings to retire.
Common sense dictates that money would immediately be rendered worthless if a large scale catastrophe of the sort that David Wallace Wells writes about comes to pass.
Prudence dictates that if you believe this, you would liquidate that cash and use it prepare to the best of your ability, whether that means being a "prepper" or helping to create a self sustaining community of like minded individuals.

I seem to have stumbled upon a litmus test of sorts. There are people who seem to believe this and will argue it until they are blue in the face but when asked why they have not acted on it by cashing out their soon to be worthless retirement savings, they seem dumbstruck.
I have wondered the same thing. That the political, Hollywood, Silicon Valley, and Wall St. elite who have so loudly sounded the alarm continue to live in mansions with manicured lawns & often have multiple homes, jet around the world, often in private jets, and generally have carbon footprints many times that of average people tells me they don't really believe what they preach. If they truly thought the world was heading for disaster they'd make adjustments in their personal carbon footprints. They'd be trying to do their part. When their carbon footprint is equal to mine then I'll pay attention to what they are saying. At present they strike me as hypocrites.

Some of the responses have dealt with the timeframe, that it is really their grandchildren that will feel the effects. I can buy that line of thinking except why aren't they doing anything to better position their grandkids for a much more difficult world? Why not make whatever sacrifice and lifestyle adjustment they could on behalf of those grandkids? By that I mean come on up to where I live and buy a family farm. They're not that expensive now and one would expect they'd only be available to the very wealthy in generations to come if the kind of climate change these folks expect does come to pass. Better yet relocate to a rural area and get your family established in a community where your grandkids will have a better chance. I do look at the acreage I live on in a small hamlet as an oasis of sorts should my kids or grandkids need it. It was farmed for a couple hundred years and the fields are still partially farmed by a couple local farmers. I have a woodstove, a handpump on my well, abundant water source on the property, forest, fruit trees etc. And it is the kind of beautiful country property urban folks covet.

It is almost as if these folks terrified at looming climate change expect others to address the problem rather than themselves.

One final thought, from where I sit it seems the climate is getting colder rather than warmer. Decades ago you could count on it hitting 30 below at some point during the winter but then it stopped getting quite that cold. In recent years it is again. It also seems winter is coming earlier & lasting longer than it did in recent decades. Springs are colder as well.
 
Old 07-17-2019, 01:56 PM
 
7,373 posts, read 2,672,841 times
Reputation: 4050
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowGirl View Post
I responded previously about moving away from Florida and buying a house off the coast and on a hill, but to be fair I did not explain my thinking. These decisions were based on climate change, including rising temperatures, that have increased hurricane activity (after 15 years in Florida and being hit by hurricanes multiple times) and rising sea levels. Hence I specifically avoided towns such as Marshfield, MA, which will be underwater as sea levels rise. I also have enough land for a decent sized garden, which I plan to start planting next year. I think a lot of people are taking climate change into account in this way. I think the OP asked whether people who believe in climate change are pulling money out of their 401ks, etc. - how would that help? I believe the implication is that if someone isn't preparing as one would for a zombie apocalypse then that person doesn't "really" believe climate change is happening. I don't think that is a proper inference for all kinds of reasons. I know other people like me who are making changes on the basis of climate change but they aren't showy changes. How would an armory help me prepare for climate change? Also, not everyone has the resources to relocate or take other steps they might otherwise take.
Good enough. You are someone who has actions that align with their beliefs, and those actions extend beyond demanding that others do things.

That is the kind of answer I was looking for, so again, kudos.
 
Old 07-17-2019, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Seattle
1,862 posts, read 404,018 times
Reputation: 1751
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
Mon 8 Oct 2018

We have 12 years to limit climate change catastrophe, warns UN

The world’s leading climate scientists have warned there is only a dozen years for global warming to be kept to a maximum of 1.5C, beyond which even half a degree will significantly worsen the risks of drought, floods, extreme heat and poverty for hundreds of millions of people.

The authors of the landmark report by the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) released on Monday say urgent and unprecedented changes are needed to reach the target, which they say is affordable and feasible although it lies at the most ambitious end of the Paris agreement pledge to keep temperatures between 1.5C and 2C.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...mark-un-report
Note that nowhere in the report do they say the temperature is going to rise 1.5C in exactly 12 years. That's just how long we have to decrease emissions before the steady change in climate inertia will push the average up to that mean temperature level. The actual change will occur over a much longer period (80 years), but will be effectively irreversible without some type of geoengineering. Our great grandkids will be experiencing much worse impact than us.

The climate change we've experienced thus far is likely here to stay -- subject to fluctuations of course -- and will probably get worse even if we cut all further emissions. It's a massive, slow-churning feedback loop.
 
Old 07-17-2019, 02:01 PM
 
86 posts, read 12,104 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
There's the alarmist rhetoric, and still, nobody describing what they are doing to prepare for the coming catastrophe that is associated with SHATTERING TEMPERATURE RECORDS!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
SHATTERING TEMPERATURE RECORDS is language used to evoke excitement, or in this case, panic.
Nah that's simply your interpretation.

This is what I wrote: Every part of the Earth's climate system has continued warming since 1998, with 2015 shattering temperature records.

UN: Climate Change Impacts “are Accelerating”

Now look at how you wrote it. Twice in all caps and one with 4 exclamation points. Why are you being so dramatic? Interesting how words can trigger some folks. LOL

Do you even know what it means by shattering temperature records? It means that current temperatures are shattering the previous decades old records.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
And if as you posit, these words accurately describe what is happening all over the globe, right this minute...then the question stands - what are you personally doing to prepare for the coming cataclysm that you are convinced is imminent?
Why are you trying to promote mass hysteria? Why are you turning my posts into something they are not?

There is nothing any individual can do to protect themselves other than don't build a home on the coast and don't move to places that flood easy or are prone to droughts. However when it comes to our food and water supply it does not matter where you live once these systems are negatively impacted by climate change.
 
Old 07-17-2019, 02:17 PM
 
3,597 posts, read 1,055,643 times
Reputation: 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
Note that nowhere in the report do they say the temperature is going to rise 1.5C in exactly 12 years.
of course not, what made you think that? UN climate scientists said we have 12 years to do what they say....if we don't...we can't avoid a catastrophy...it will be too late

" scientists are not saying we are in imminent danger. That’s the right wing media creating that narrative."

UN/IPCC climate scientists said we have 12 years to limit climate change CATASTROPHE.....
...if we don't do what they say in the next 11 years now...there will be unavoidable catastrophe

....12 years meets anyone's definition of imminent

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...mark-un-report

..it's worded in a way to make people fall for it....AOC certainly did
 
Old 07-17-2019, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Haiku
5,118 posts, read 2,861,952 times
Reputation: 7466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
Mon 8 Oct 2018

We have 12 years to limit climate change catastrophe, warns UN

The world’s leading climate scientists have warned there is only a dozen years for global warming to be kept to a maximum of 1.5C, beyond which even half a degree will significantly worsen the risks of drought, floods, extreme heat and poverty for hundreds of millions of people.

The authors of the landmark report by the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) released on Monday say urgent and unprecedented changes are needed to reach the target, which they say is affordable and feasible although it lies at the most ambitious end of the Paris agreement pledge to keep temperatures between 1.5C and 2C.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...mark-un-report
This was answered already. See post #12.
 
Old 07-17-2019, 03:26 PM
 
3,597 posts, read 1,055,643 times
Reputation: 2202
"of course not, what made you think that? UN climate scientists said we have 12 years to do what they say....if we don't...we can't avoid a catastrophy...it will be too late"
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