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Old 07-21-2019, 04:24 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,594 posts, read 3,096,498 times
Reputation: 2165

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
None of the climate change alarmist ever talk about population control.
That would be the biggest help to the planet and MANY levels.
Some of them have, it's just that that depends either on major cultural changes or uplifting people out of poverty so that population growth rates decrease (again, yeah, I typed that lifting people out of poverty will reduce their birth rates).

The one, I don't know how to do. The other would be quite expensive if first world nations would have anything to do with it and would dramatically increase C02 output if we don't develop cheap, clean energy sources before then.

 
Old 07-21-2019, 04:26 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,594 posts, read 3,096,498 times
Reputation: 2165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavalier View Post
The whole thing is a big SCAM.


Even if America reduced emissions to ZERO, it would make no difference on this alleged destruction of climate. The open sewers of China and India are just to reckless for it to matter to anyone in America.


That is what the Left with this nonsense agenda will not tell you.
B.S. Per person we're among the top C02 emitters on the planet. Also, it's not going to be convincing if we tell other countries to do things we're not doing. That's probably the most important factor.
 
Old 07-21-2019, 04:35 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,594 posts, read 3,096,498 times
Reputation: 2165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
the only thing ridiculous is Americans falling for it...
...America has reduced it's CO2 emissions back to 1991 levels....almost 30 years ago

It's the rest of the world that's increasing CO2....not the USA

who's raising CO2 levels > https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn....rbonemissi.jpg

The easiest way to stop it...is stop giving money to the UN/IPCC

The UN gives them money to help find ways to lower their emissions.....those countries use that money to build coal plants
All I know is that's why we have to hurry up and incent cheap, clean energy so that those poorer nations don't have to use coal instead.

On a side note...we could have a kind of carbon trading international program. Nations producing over a certain amount of C02 would have to "buy" the excessive carbon they produce. Nations producing below the limit would be rewarded by receiving that money. This would give those nations you're talking about a financial incentive to develop cleaner energy sources. I'm not saying we should do that...I'm just saying solutions have been proposed.
 
Old 07-21-2019, 04:46 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,594 posts, read 3,096,498 times
Reputation: 2165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
There you go again, using logic and reason with liberals. Haven't you learned anything yet? Facts have no power here.

Now-if those in the "AGW movement" actually believed what they spew-they would have long-since gotten rid of their 10,000 square foot McMansions. They would never fly private jets-perhaps the most "per capita" carbon source in the world. They would sink their yachts. They would drive Nissan Leafs rather than Suburbans. Follow the most major voices, and watch what they do, not what they say. If they don't "walk the walk"-they are nothing bug grifters.
Why would they do that? We're talking about events that aren't going to really snowball until after all those people with the McMansions are deceased. It's an issue of "what I do really isn't going to affect that much, because I'm so small" and they're right.

That's why government controls could be beneficial. I'm not arguing for what we should do about global warming. The only strategy I'm extremely fond of is researching environmentally friendly technologies at breakneck speed. I'm just saying....to get individuals to alter their behavior based on guilting them into stuff on a large scale may not be possible...because people naturally look at things like "I'm very small," and that's 100% correct. I figure any reductions of consumption will have to come about through taxes and other laws, or something that increases gas prices. Technological advancements would be another, better solution. A lot of people think that if we don't develop fusion power, we're going to be in deep trouble. Fusion power would allow clean energy without nuclear waste. The problem is, it's development is always 30 years away. If we can't develop that, I figure we're going to have no option besides some pretty hefty government controls...because society won't change culture on its own, because the individual knows that their individual actions are very small. That's why I would have preferred scrapping the whole expedition to Mars and dropping all of that 100 billion dollars or so into clean energy tech.
 
Old 07-21-2019, 04:48 AM
 
Location: USA
20,311 posts, read 9,671,271 times
Reputation: 15305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
B.S. Per person we're among the top C02 emitters on the planet. Also, it's not going to be convincing if we tell other countries to do things we're not doing. That's probably the most important factor.
There's NO proof that CO2 causes climate change when you can't even tell me what percentage is due to Man and what is due to NATURE. You also can't tell me where the MONEY will go from all the new Taxes, surcharges, fees, fines, etc that will be levied for Fossil Fuel use, nor how that will "FIX" Climate Change.

You do realize that every product and service we use will become drastically more expensive as everything requires the use of fossil fuel, and not just for transportation. All products, processes, and services require fossil fuel. That phone or computer your typing on is made largely of OIL. The electricity you're using to power it comes largely from COAL, Natural Gas, or other FOSSIL FUEL.
 
Old 07-21-2019, 04:48 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,594 posts, read 3,096,498 times
Reputation: 2165
Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
According to Al Gore's book, its already too late. So if its too late, there's nothing we can do to stop it. So why waste time and money.
It's not one event. It's several. He's talking about it being too late to stop some of those events, not all.
 
Old 07-21-2019, 04:57 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,594 posts, read 3,096,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
(snip)

You also can't tell me where the MONEY will go from all the new Taxes, surcharges, fees, fines, etc that will be levied for Fossil Fuel use, nor how that will "FIX" Climate Change.

You do realize that every product and service we use will become drastically more expensive as everything requires the use of fossil fuel, and not just for transportation. All products, processes, and services require fossil fuel. That phone or computer your typing on is made largely of OIL. The electricity you're using to power it comes largely from COAL, Natural Gas, or other FOSSIL FUEL.
That's why I tend to advocate technological advancements rather than government controls...but there is a system that might solve that problem without harming the economy. We could initiate a nationwide carbon tax. We could put all the collected income into a pot. We could split the contents of the pot up evenly throughout society - everyone gets the exact same percentage of the pot. That way, the less C02 you produce the greater the income from the pot assists you, and it may even give you more money that you put into the pot in the first place.

The nice thing about this option is that it would primarily hinder the private jet owners and the average citizens could very plausibly be getting more back from the system than they put into it.

However, I don't know how much money the bureaucracy necessary to institute the system would cost. Also, depending on how it's done, it could get extremely irritating for individuals. I don't want to have to store all my receipts for gas somewhere.

But you're right...it would be a lot easier to do that if we had power funded primarily through nuclear energy or something...or maybe wind or solar.
 
Old 07-21-2019, 05:02 AM
 
Location: USA
20,311 posts, read 9,671,271 times
Reputation: 15305
Any penalties on CO2 will cause tremendous economic slow downs, loss of jobs, and suffering especially of the poor and middle income earners. I have no problem with other energy sources, but only if they make economic sense. Wind, and solar DO NOT make economic sense. Nuke? I am not so sure, but France is doing it.
 
Old 07-21-2019, 05:09 AM
 
16,834 posts, read 14,398,623 times
Reputation: 20750
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
For the record, I am skeptical of climate change being a danger. I'm also not interested in debating it or explaining my reasons why. There are plenty of people on both sides of this issue who have spent plenty of time doing that here and elsewhere.
No. My question is for those who honestly and earnestly believe this is an imminent problem. I have plenty in my own family and among friends. One of them just sent me a copy of a book by David Wallace Wells out of the blue and implored me to read it.



My question for them is a simple one but it's always met with blank stares, silence and it always catches them off guard.

If you honestly believe we are facing imminent catastrophe, why don't you prepare for it by cashing out your 401k, liquidating your assets and using the money that will soon be worthless to BUY things that will enable you and your family to survive or at least suffer less?

Put your money where your mouth.. or your mindset is!
I'm not being facetious here either. I sincerely do not get the disconnect between people who think we have 10-20 years at the most before society changes drastically and things like 401ks and investments become worthless and their hesitancy to take action.

My grandfather always told me.. "Don't listen to what people SAY, pay attention to what they DO!"
I don't see my alarmist relatives, friends and coworkers making life decisions like this is an imminent crisis. I don't see the Michael Manns or AL Gore's of the world doing so either.


I work in finance and deal alot with 401ks and retirement planning. I know very many people live paycheck to paycheck but have a small fortune tied up in a 401k or some sort of retirement account.
Some people sincerely and devoutly believe that we are headed for a climate disaster or emergency in the near term.. at least LONG before they would cash out this savings to retire.
Common sense dictates that money would immediately be rendered worthless if a large scale catastrophe of the sort that David Wallace Wells writes about comes to pass.
Prudence dictates that if you believe this, you would liquidate that cash and use it prepare to the best of your ability, whether that means being a "prepper" or helping to create a self sustaining community of like minded individuals.

I seem to have stumbled upon a litmus test of sorts. There are people who seem to believe this and will argue it until they are blue in the face but when asked why they have not acted on it by cashing out their soon to be worthless retirement savings, they seem dumbstruck.
What do you think people can buy that will protect us from the effects of climate change?
 
Old 07-21-2019, 05:37 AM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
22,275 posts, read 14,923,059 times
Reputation: 16539
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyoutwalkintheblacklab View Post
For the record, I am skeptical of climate change being a danger. I'm also not interested in debating it or explaining my reasons why. There are plenty of people on both sides of this issue who have spent plenty of time doing that here and elsewhere.
No. My question is for those who honestly and earnestly believe this is an imminent problem. I have plenty in my own family and among friends. One of them just sent me a copy of a book by David Wallace Wells out of the blue and implored me to read it.



My question for them is a simple one but it's always met with blank stares, silence and it always catches them off guard.

If you honestly believe we are facing imminent catastrophe, why don't you prepare for it by cashing out your 401k, liquidating your assets and using the money that will soon be worthless to BUY things that will enable you and your family to survive or at least suffer less?
The answer to your question:

No matter how much money you have, you and all your descendants will never be able to live as happily or as successfully in a too-hot world.

Once the planet heats up past the point of no return, there will be no place you can go where life will be as easy as the life you now enjoy.

Money won't help when all of life's essentials wither and disappear.

Once you use everything up you bought, there won't be anything to replace the stuff. Once the climate heats up past the point of no return, it will never revert to the climate it was for far, far beyond your life span and your children's lives.
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