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Old 07-17-2019, 11:44 AM
 
79,548 posts, read 34,568,324 times
Reputation: 16006

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post


They covered for Obama like no other president. When gas prices were high he was saving lives, but when the prices were high under Bush, he was paying off his oil buddies.
In reality no president has mush control over oil/gas prices, but the selevtive coverage and spin the media used was evident.

As it relates to this subject, when Obama was running up the debt like a drunken sailor, the MSM was barely saying a word.
Compare that with all the stories being run now about the massive debt under Trump.


`
So massive debt is OK?
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
1,127 posts, read 1,186,406 times
Reputation: 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
The Media have never, IMHO, created a Recession......

However, car sales are off. Housing sales are stable or off. Prices everywhere I live are stable....projected to go nowhere (many are below the Great Recession prices).....This is good, is it not? High costs of living are directly related to over-priced housing.

Purchasing managers Index (manufacturing) is lower than it has been since 2009...Not sure what this includes, I'm not going to complain if its down because it included goods purchased from China.

The Fed has outright admitted things are NOT going as was planned.

The "Tax Reform" set us on an endless path to debt and deficit that will never be made up...yet did little good. We could not keep raising taxes on a perpetually shrinking corporate tax base, while workers who lost those opportunities end up unemployed/underemployed, pay fewer to no taxes, and fall into government funded safety net programs. Lower the taxes, increase the volume, keep America working, collect taxes, win. I do worry we are too far gone with debt, foreign trade, and manufacturing, but the current program, IMO, is our best shot at escaping it but it's going to take time. Furthermore, our own government has itself in a pickle, because if it raises rates which would help curb inflation and costs of living for those "barely or not making it" would make the government unable to service it's debt.

In the end what does it matter if we have a defined "recession". 40% of Americans aren't making it. 46% of Floridians aren't making it. Life spans are stable or decreasing. What is making it? I had to put off purchasing a home for 7 years because I knew I couldn't afford it, even if some bank would loan me nearly twice what I would be comfortable paying. Thank Bush for that, we never settled back down from the "house is an investment and commodity" crap that happened from 2001 onward.

What if they gave a Recession and no one came??

That's where we are right now. The "good times" - frankly, suck. Try to sell a boat or a vacation house in most places....not saying it's hopeless, but it's hard and the price better be right.

Recession? We're already at about 1/2 the normal market increases since "tax reform".......

The question is more "how are people doing - especially the forgotten man"...

Is a larger percentage of people insured?
Has net worth of the middle class and lower gone up much more than inflation?

and so on.

Added some comments. Where are you located, generally? There are many problems in my locale as we are incurring a large influx of people from out of state coupled with knee jerk reactions to the growth and a NIMBY anti-growth attitude. Everyone wants to be the last one in. As a result housing has gone through the roof such that only the top 12% of our income earners can afford the average listed home price and we have a lot of good paying jobs that are going begging as a result. Plus the typical inflation goods and groceries are +30% over national avg. because cost of living is so high. I don't blame that on our president though, our state advertises itself and realtors package it up and put a bow on it for the highest bidder. Then instead of accommodating the growth with more housing to keep costs in line, they take our tax $$$ and subsidize inflated rents in section 8 housing for the lower and lower middle class. Much of the middle class sits just above the cut-off for all this assistance, and lives a LOWER quality of life making say $5000-$10,000 more than the cutoff, while enduring $12,000-$20,000 more in housing, medical, and food expenses that those under the "line" get assisted or for free.
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:16 PM
 
46,605 posts, read 18,745,073 times
Reputation: 19399
I can't imagine why any critically thinking adult pays any attention to anything from NBC and its byproducts.
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Tucson AZ & Leipzig, Germany
2,584 posts, read 7,897,131 times
Reputation: 4115
The bond market is not the MSM, nor is it owned or influenced by left leaning political powers. It is not owned by right leaning political powers either, it is the one of the foundations of the financial system in the US. Look at the interest rate chart for the past 3 or 4 years. I happen to follow this closely, because as a retiree, I own many bond mutual funds and their dividends are an important part of my retirement income.

Interest rates for the 10 year US Treasury bond have dropped from above 3 percent to right about 2 percent. OK, 1 percent lower interest rate does not sound like a whole lot, unless you consider it as a percentage drop. Interest rates have dropped about 35 percent in the past year. Bond interest rates are sending flashing warning signs, that future weakness in the economy is on the horizon. These are the same type of interest rate changes that have occurred before every major financial downturn in the past. Is it not playing politics to discuss the bond market interest rate moves and how they play a role in future economic trends.
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:26 PM
 
39,588 posts, read 15,668,347 times
Reputation: 25849
Bill Clinton left office With a $127 billion surplus and was projected to pay off the debt in 10 years.

Bush Jr. turned that into a $1.4 trillion deficit.

Obama got it down to $492 billion.

Trump raised it back up to $833 billion.

This is not media spin. These are the facts.

The economy was cooking the during the Clinton administration.

Things took a turn for the worse during the Bush administration.

Got back on track during Obama's administration.

Economic numbers have stayed on the same trajectory since.

Despite the huge payday loan tax scam, nothing has really changed. No 5% - 6% economic growth. No big uptick in wages. Stock market seems to be in a holding pattern, but everything else still on the same track.
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
1,127 posts, read 1,186,406 times
Reputation: 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
I can't imagine why any critically thinking adult pays any attention to anything from NBC and its byproducts.
How many people are critically thinking though? That's the scary part.
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
1,127 posts, read 1,186,406 times
Reputation: 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Bill Clinton left office With a $127 billion surplus and was projected to pay off the debt in 10 years.

Bush Jr. turned that into a $1.4 trillion deficit.

Obama got it down to $492 billion.

Trump raised it back up to $833 billion.

This is not media spin. These are the facts.

The economy was cooking the during the Clinton administration.

Things took a turn for the worse during the Bush administration.

Got back on track during Obama's administration.

Economic numbers have stayed on the same trajectory since.

Despite the huge payday loan tax scam, nothing has really changed. No 5% - 6% economic growth. No big uptick in wages. Stock market seems to be in a holding pattern, but everything else still on the same track.
Agreed for the most part, I liked Bill. I used to joke to give that man some cigars and more aides and get him back in office. The democratic party also used to stand behind the working middle class instead of illegal's rights, handouts for those that don't want to work, and locking up/deporting criminals.
Bill was left to sign the trade agreement setup by Bush Sr. which would be the beginning of the end for US manufacturing, and you can follow the deficit growth from there. The Trump tax cuts were needed to spur a US manufacturing revitalization, and while the tax cuts were instant the re-vitalization is going to take time, years probably. Maybe it won't work, and there is too much debt for our government to service to recover from, but better to make our best effort instead of taxing our nation into oblivion because who loses is us. The corporations will just relocate to nations where the numbers crunch in their favor, massive job losses and dependence upon UE and food stamps will ensue, the government will default and our dollar will flop. Foreign countries will come in an "buzzard" the deals on our commodities (raw materials, food, and fuels) and its game over.
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:51 PM
 
16,895 posts, read 9,319,692 times
Reputation: 6858
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Bill Clinton left office With a $127 billion surplus and was projected to pay off the debt in 10 years.

Bush Jr. turned that into a $1.4 trillion deficit.

Obama got it down to $492 billion.

Trump raised it back up to $833 billion.

This is not media spin. These are the facts.

The economy was cooking the during the Clinton administration.

Things took a turn for the worse during the Bush administration.

Got back on track during Obama's administration.

Economic numbers have stayed on the same trajectory since.

Despite the huge payday loan tax scam, nothing has really changed. No 5% - 6% economic growth. No big uptick in wages. Stock market seems to be in a holding pattern, but everything else still on the same track.
Please stop lying.

This has been shown to you on numerous occasions to be lies and half-truths.

You and other liars are why we have so much dysfunction today.


Every single Fiscal Year under Clinton the debt rose. Yes, it rose, but barely. There was no actual surplus. The surplus going forward was a rosy projection that wouldn't come to fruition. The somewhat solid fiscal years under Clinton were as much to credit for the GOP Contract with America that made balancing the budget a priority.

Obama's last full Fiscal Year (October 1st 2015 to September 30th 2016) saw a 1.4 Trillion national debt increase.

Obama's last full year in office (January 20th 2016 to January 20th 2017) saw the national debt increase by $1 Trillion.

Obama blasted Bush for spending outside of the budget, which masked debt accumulation, and then did it more than Bush.


Fact is BOTH parties have destroyed our finances. Period. Please stop lying.


I used January 20th as the start and end date of each year due to when the inauguration is and rounded...that is a lot of losing for a long time.

Annual total debt added, keep in mind that there is spending outside of the "budget" so it is possible to add more debt than what the "budget" adds. Both Bush and Obama criticized off-budget expenses and then of course did it more than the previous guy.


Clinton
8th year $0.02 Trillion

Bush
1st year $0.2 Trillion
2nd year $0.4 Trillion
3rd year $0.6 Trillion
4th year $0.6 Trillion
5th year $0.6 Trillion
6th year $0.5 Trillion
7th year $0.5 Trillion
8th year $1.4 Trillion

Obama
1st year $1.7 Trillion
2nd year $1.7 Trillion
3rd year $1.2 Trillion
4th year $1.2 Trillion
5th year $0.8 Trillion
6th year $0.8 Trillion
7th year $0.9 Trillion
8th year $1.0 Trillion

Trump
1st year $0.5 Trillion
2nd year $1.5 Trillion
3rd year IN PROGRESS - $0.07 Trillion - lot's of expenses coming.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Federal Way, WA
664 posts, read 212,072 times
Reputation: 669
Well Republicans would have had everyone believe that the great recession happened when Obama took office and that the economy never improved at all under him. I still remember every time the unemployment numbers improved, far righties would start saying that its only because people quit looking for work. Rush Limbaugh tried to promote the idea that unemployment was actually over 20% when it was under 7%.
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Old 07-17-2019, 02:38 PM
 
1,693 posts, read 409,328 times
Reputation: 2515
Nothing has fundamentally changed since 08-09. Central banks around the world masked the underlying structural problems by taking interest rates to record lows (in some cases negative) and injecting trillions of artificial liquidity into the system. Everything has been heavily manipulated into "appearing" like great times. Most people buy into it.

The problem is the crash is all going to blamed on Trump even though this has been in the making for decades. Trump is the perfect scapegoat because he brags about the markets and the "greatest economy ever" on a daily basis. The establishment will blame the crash on Trump, conservatism (even though Trump is not a fiscal conservative), and anti-establishment candidates. It is a dream narrative for the powers to be.

As I have said all along, the real issue is what comes AFTER Trump......
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