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Old Yesterday, 10:02 AM
 
8,834 posts, read 4,735,881 times
Reputation: 2033

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I am starting to think Independent Parties won't break the two Party mold

It will be the current two Parties splintering off

In the long run think this would actually be a good thing to happen within Congress
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Old Yesterday, 10:38 AM
 
Location: San Jose
2,163 posts, read 649,303 times
Reputation: 2289
The first past the post, two party system we have is tyrannical, outdated and has impeded any chance this country has for social and democratic growth. As long as the current system stays as it is, the US will continue to decline as a world power.
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Old Yesterday, 11:41 AM
 
52,022 posts, read 41,851,918 times
Reputation: 32458
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
Mathguy, you sometimes have genuinely honest conversations.

Do you honestly not understand what im talking about. I get it that not every person who has ever used that phrase had a problem with minorities, but it still is an odd argument that doesnt make much sense when discussing politics.

As I said in my second Post, when Van Jones pressed the father, he made it about sexuality, and race. Why is it some white people think Democrats cant multitask... and on the opposite end, are they saying they believe Republicans can multitask, or are they saying they dont want Republicans to multitask and just worry about white people.

Again, this is based on multiple comments from people like the man being interviews by Van Jones, his family, and the people who claims he talks to daily who feel just like him.

Assuming he is telling the truth, that means there are about 600,000 voters(give or take) who switched parties because they believe Democrats "only care about gay/black/brown people".

So why mock my post instead of responding to the content ?

Here is the video. Conversation about Democrats not supporting "working class people" starts at 5:30


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXjw4e_f4JA
I think that we can all agree that NAFTA has shifted a lot of manufacturing out of the country. The factory in my hometown closed, they even know where those components are now made....Mexico.

There is also a lot of on-shore pressure due to cheap illegal laborers. Basic stuff, not really at question.

People mostly concerned about their wallets and less about Trumps morals or various social issues took a chance on him because Hillary was pro-NAFTA and encouraged additional cheap illegal labor. *shrug*.

There can be other reasons and motivations but wage pressure on the working people in this country is acute and is going to sway voters perceptions as to whom will best tackle the issue.
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Old Yesterday, 12:08 PM
 
650 posts, read 140,193 times
Reputation: 1248
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
The first past the post, two party system we have is tyrannical, outdated and has impeded any chance this country has for social and democratic growth. As long as the current system stays as it is, the US will continue to decline as a world power.
And both the Dems and Repubs do everything in their power to make sure that only they remain as the 2 political parties that "count".

Both are beholden to big money.
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Old Yesterday, 12:12 PM
 
Location: My House
34,667 posts, read 29,022,122 times
Reputation: 25639
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
As a moderate, I find myself now with no party to vote for.

The Republican Party has become something that I don't recognize as even being American. But the Democrats have gone bonkers, with a race to see how far left they can go, and which one can promise to give away more free stuff, and have shifted away from representing the middle class worker.

I'm middle class, retired, and moderate (although liberal ideologically, I'm sill moderate, as opposed to far left, but not tooo far from just to the right of center).

The increasing polarization is leaving the moderate voter out in the cold, or being forced to choose between two extremes. No one seems to represent my interests, anymore.

I guess I'll have to look at the third parties? They can't win and often just serve as spoilers, so I don't know about that. I've been a reliable voter in the past, but I've not run across this situation ever in my adulthood - where neither party represents my interests or people like me.

Anyone else feel the same way?
I have the same problem, frankly. And, I suspect there are more of us than there are extremists in this country.

The trouble now is that with both of the major parties hijacked by extreme segments, we don't have anyone we feel like we can vote for.

One of the biggest criticisms of Clinton that I saw from the left was that she wasn't radical ENOUGH.

Never mind what the right thought of her, they weren't going to vote for her anyway.

So, now, with moderates being a bit further ahead in polling than extremists for the Democrats, it's worrying that so many fringe folks really want to oust all the moderates and get the one that is the EXACT opposite of Trump on the ballot.
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Old Yesterday, 12:39 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,163 posts, read 649,303 times
Reputation: 2289
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
And both the Dems and Repubs do everything in their power to make sure that only they remain as the 2 political parties that "count".

Both are beholden to big money.
Exactly. Its shocking how few people actual realize this.
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Old Yesterday, 12:43 PM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
10,020 posts, read 8,101,457 times
Reputation: 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
I think that we can all agree that NAFTA has shifted a lot of manufacturing out of the country. The factory in my hometown closed, they even know where those components are now made....Mexico.

There is also a lot of on-shore pressure due to cheap illegal laborers. Basic stuff, not really at question.

People mostly concerned about their wallets and less about Trumps morals or various social issues took a chance on him because Hillary was pro-NAFTA and encouraged additional cheap illegal labor. *shrug*.

There can be other reasons and motivations but wage pressure on the working people in this country is acute and is going to sway voters perceptions as to whom will best tackle the issue.
Mexico's effect is tiny compared to China.
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Old Yesterday, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,622 posts, read 17,675,866 times
Reputation: 15697
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
As a moderate, I find myself now with no party to vote for.

The Republican Party has become something that I don't recognize as even being American. But the Democrats have gone bonkers, with a race to see how far left they can go, and which one can promise to give away more free stuff, and have shifted away from representing the middle class worker.

I'm middle class, retired, and moderate (although liberal ideologically, I'm sill moderate, as opposed to far left, but not tooo far from just to the right of center).

The increasing polarization is leaving the moderate voter out in the cold, or being forced to choose between two extremes. No one seems to represent my interests, anymore.

I guess I'll have to look at the third parties? They can't win and often just serve as spoilers, so I don't know about that. I've been a reliable voter in the past, but I've not run across this situation ever in my adulthood - where neither party represents my interests or people like me.

Anyone else feel the same way?
Let me ask-what of Trump's policies don't you like, or consider extreme?

Enforcing our immigration laws?
Protecting American citizens?
Easing the tax burden on working Americans?
Working towards fair trade practices with foreign nations?
Placing the safety and security of Americans ahead of foreigners?
Making the tax rate on US businesses competitive with the rest of the world?
Encouraging businesses to produce products in this nation?
Cracking down on businesses that hire illegals?
Working towards rational immigration reform?

Just trying to understand what you consider moderate...
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Old Yesterday, 01:59 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,163 posts, read 649,303 times
Reputation: 2289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Encouraging businesses to produce products in this nation?
You know the best way to insure this actually happens? Introduce the concept of Codetermination or Mitbestimmung into American business practices.

Quote:
Mitbestimmung, the modern law on codetermination is found principally in the Mitbestimmungsgesetz of 1976. The law allows workers to elect representatives (usually trade union representatives) for almost half of the supervisory board of directors. The legislation is separate from the main German company law Act for public companies, the Aktiengesetz. It applies to public and private companies, so long as there are over 2,000 employees. For companies with 500–2,000 employees, one third of the supervisory board must be elected.
Notice how Audi, Mercedes, BMW didn't send all of their manufacturing jobs to China. Its because German law allows the workers of those companies to have an actual say in the business dealings of the company they work for. So German workers have insured that their jobs did not get sent overseas regardless of what the other shareholders may have wanted.

American workers on the other hand have almost no power and no leverage in the workplace and until they do, the idea that business are gonna forgo cheap labor to make things in America is nothing but a silly pipe dream.

You think Trump would ever endorse a concept like Mitbestimmung? It would be a very cold day in hell before that happens.
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Old Yesterday, 06:02 PM
 
6,649 posts, read 3,761,413 times
Reputation: 13731
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
You know the best way to insure this actually happens? Introduce the concept of Codetermination or Mitbestimmung into American business practices.



Notice how Audi, Mercedes, BMW didn't send all of their manufacturing jobs to China. Its because German law allows the workers of those companies to have an actual say in the business dealings of the company they work for. So German workers have insured that their jobs did not get sent overseas regardless of what the other shareholders may have wanted.

American workers on the other hand have almost no power and no leverage in the workplace and until they do, the idea that business are gonna forgo cheap labor to make things in America is nothing but a silly pipe dream.

You think Trump would ever endorse a concept like Mitbestimmung? It would be a very cold day in hell before that happens.
Very interesting, Ken. I've never heard of this before. So that's how Germany ended up not sending all of its manufacturing jobs to other countries? We Americans don't know much about the operations of other countries, do we?
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