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Old 07-18-2019, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
23,367 posts, read 11,569,810 times
Reputation: 4326

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Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
Did I say that rent and mortgages have something to do with legal status? I did not. (Perhaps you took something I wrote the wrong way?)
You used it as an example of how illegals were taking advantage of the system when talking about their kids getting free educations. Since illegals pay those taxes, they dont get a free education, thats my point.


Quote:
And as far as paying the "right" amount of taxes -- yes, that is possible, but how can people pay the right amount of taxes if they are working under the table?
Because your employer pays your taxes on your behalf when they fill out their taxes. What comes out of your paycheck as payroll taxes are technically a reimbursements to that company(our tax system is slightly more complicated than most realize)

So in short, as long as the company employing illegals claims the right number of employees, then they are paying for those those illegals as well.
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
23,367 posts, read 11,569,810 times
Reputation: 4326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
I think that we can all agree that NAFTA has shifted a lot of manufacturing out of the country. The factory in my hometown closed, they even know where those components are now made....Mexico.

There is also a lot of on-shore pressure due to cheap illegal laborers. Basic stuff, not really at question.

People mostly concerned about their wallets and less about Trumps morals or various social issues took a chance on him because Hillary was pro-NAFTA and encouraged additional cheap illegal labor. *shrug*.

There can be other reasons and motivations but wage pressure on the working people in this country is acute and is going to sway voters perceptions as to whom will best tackle the issue.
People in Ohio voted for Republicans who voted for NAFTA and against Democrats who fought it and voted no.

even if you want to claim Trump was better than Hillary on that issue, You cant say Portman was better Strickland and so on and so forth.

But back to the main reason I posted the video, there is a clear divide in this guys mind when it comes to the issues on race and sexual orientation. He seems to believe that Democrats can not support Minorities and White people at the same time. Do you not have a problem with that logic ?
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Texas
26,806 posts, read 11,250,397 times
Reputation: 6163
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Operative word. Seem. Strangely the economy has done well under Democratic control Every Single Time. Why is that?
lmao Like under FDR? Like under Obama when welfare was sky high? Much higher than before the crash? Make something else up
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Texas
26,806 posts, read 11,250,397 times
Reputation: 6163
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
You just described the hard right and the hard left which is what the 2 parties have turned into.
Maybe you don't understand what "moderate" means ?
I don't understand all the labels. What are the polices moderates back?
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
23,367 posts, read 11,569,810 times
Reputation: 4326
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
This man in this video...that's similar to how I feel, except I'm retired and not worried about a job. I also would call that man "the middle class worker," not "working class." I think of the working class as low income, below the middle class. Waitresses, hotel maids, janitors, WalMart workers, etc. Or maybe that's lower middle class?

I feel similar to that man, except I never would have voted for Trump. I mean, come on. But drowning people will grab a slimy rope.

The Democrats do seem to be all about social causes and the rights of minorities and immigrants. Those things are important, but they seem to put those causes above the interests of the middle class. Pocket book issues. It used to not be that way.
If you are a gay man who is fired for your sexual orientation, , women discriminated against in a job training program, black person trying to get a business loan,

Are these not all pocketbook issues ???????? Why is it that people keep pretending there are problems unique to minorities, and that they should move to the back of the line and not be addressed ?????

Quote:
Instead of talking about a fair deal, working hard for decades and then being assured that Social Security and Medicare (that you've paid for) is there for you, they seem to talk more about giving away free stuff to people who haven't worked for it. So, I don't know. I don't know if there will be anyone reasonable to vote for, with any chance of winning.
You have to be specific with the phrase free stuff, because As i already pointed out in this thread, the main thing every tries to attack Democrats with wouldnt be free, and would actually be better paid for under the Dems plan than it is now.
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:33 PM
 
52,080 posts, read 41,881,580 times
Reputation: 32475
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
Mexico's effect is tiny compared to China.
For off-shoring yes, totally agree.

In my sole example, that went to Mexico.

For on-shoring it's both Mexico and all of South America.
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:39 PM
 
52,080 posts, read 41,881,580 times
Reputation: 32475
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
If you are a gay man who is fired for your sexual orientation, , women discriminated against in a job training program, black person trying to get a business loan,

Are these not all pocketbook issues ???????? Why is it that people keep pretending there are problems unique to minorities, and that they should move to the back of the line and not be addressed ?????
These are indeed pocketbook issues but aren't at least 2, if not all 3 protected already by federal law?

In fact, whom do the poorest unskilled workers compete with for jobs and wages? Whom do you see cleaning hotel rooms, restrooms, bussing tables and so forth? Where I live about 90% are hispanics with poor english skills, we all know a good number of them are illegal. I personally love hispanics, half my family is hispanic whose grandfather immigrated here. My college roomate, the same...they're a doctor now.

Hey, I have a good education and a nice upper middle class job. My kids are on the same track so it helps me to have cheap labor mowing lawns, doing dishes and working at the chicken processing plant.

But for the poorest Americans, their direct competition is the illegal laborer. Does anyone actually refute that here? Anybody?

We need a guest worker program so that there is not some sort of sneaky screw-job going on of both illegal and domestic workers. The BS around something like $15 minimum wage is intentionally ridiculous and not designed to pass but to create a wedge issue and is already being pre-empted by automation and cutting workforces.
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:44 PM
 
9,329 posts, read 9,256,151 times
Reputation: 11802
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
As a moderate, I find myself now with no party to vote for.

The Republican Party has become something that I don't recognize as even being American. But the Democrats have gone bonkers, with a race to see how far left they can go, and which one can promise to give away more free stuff, and have shifted away from representing the middle class worker.

I'm middle class, retired, and moderate (although liberal ideologically, I'm sill moderate, as opposed to far left, but not tooo far from just to the right of center).

The increasing polarization is leaving the moderate voter out in the cold, or being forced to choose between two extremes. No one seems to represent my interests, anymore.

I guess I'll have to look at the third parties? They can't win and often just serve as spoilers, so I don't know about that. I've been a reliable voter in the past, but I've not run across this situation ever in my adulthood - where neither party represents my interests or people like me.

Anyone else feel the same way?
Hold on. It can't last forever.

And maybe think about getting involved with a local group where you can make your voice heard.
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Texas
26,806 posts, read 11,250,397 times
Reputation: 6163
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
If you are a gay man who is fired for your sexual orientation, , women discriminated against in a job training program, black person trying to get a business loan,

Are these not all pocketbook issues ???????? Why is it that people keep pretending there are problems unique to minorities, and that they should move to the back of the line and not be addressed ?????
Why do you think these extremely rare examples are a big issue?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
You have to be specific with the phrase free stuff, because As i already pointed out in this thread, the main thing every tries to attack Democrats with wouldnt be free, and would actually be better paid for under the Dems plan than it is now.
Because big government sucks at 99% of what they do.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Austin
12,263 posts, read 6,975,404 times
Reputation: 13528
Moderates vote for divided government, which is what America has as governance in Washington most of the time.
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