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Old Yesterday, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,569 posts, read 1,353,580 times
Reputation: 2047

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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
Voters keep replacing sane voices with extreme ideologues. Partisans seem to be voting in primaries at higher rates than moderates.
You are correct there! I've been to a Minnesota caucus a few times, and trust me, it's the fringes, the "true believers", the I'm not compromising with anyone with an open mind, that show up. Good people perhaps, but open minded to alternative opinions...NOT!

But...ultimately, who do WE have to blame? Nobody but ourselves. If we moderates, the 70% in the middle between the 15% party zealots on each end who think the other side is pure evil, don't show up to represent ourselves, we let the zealots control things in the general election by our absence in the caucus/primary.

Term limits....why? We have the power to impose them already. We all hate congress cumulatively...while voting our own Representative and/or Senator back into office term after term. I've voted for more losers in my life than winners, overall. Seeing how things are going, and have been for some time, I think I'm on to something.
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Old Yesterday, 04:53 PM
 
6,642 posts, read 1,372,282 times
Reputation: 16713
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
Hold those companies accountable as they are the ones who choose not to pay taxes. They are technically the ones responsible for paying that tax. If they dont, they are the ones who have violated the law. Again, hold the companies accountable for paying people under the table.

Property taxes are either paid directly by the home owner(including mortgage) or through Rent. And everyone pays sales tax, So illegals absolutely pay for schools as those are the 2 ways most states,counties,cities pay for it. the 3rd most common way is Lotteries.the 4th most common way is a specialty tax, but only a couple of cities,and school districts in 16 states have specialty income taxes. So all in all, maybe 20 million people are affected by that. So if you are one of those 20 million, then yeah, you should be pissed And again, its the companies fault if they choose to pay people under the table.

In short, you should be blaming Republicans, as they are the ones who allowed the e-verify loopholes, or Dont actually follow up. As well as companies who choose to pay under the table.
Thanks for responding (and keeping it civil!), but I am going to stick to my opinion. Of course, property taxes are collected through rents, but most people here illegally pay much less in taxes than the average middle class citizen.

But, yes, I do agree with you about companies who knowingly hire people who are here illegally are much more to blame than the "illegals" themselves IF these companies or business owners could hire U.S. citizens to do the work instead (meaning if citizens were willing to do the work). I am not disputing the fact that most corporations are greedy and care much more about profit than anything else.

I also do not begrudge anyone for wanting a better life, but I just wish that they would do that legally.
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Old Yesterday, 04:59 PM
 
8,824 posts, read 4,733,534 times
Reputation: 2032
I am hoping for a POTUS and a Congress that will work towards:

Automatic voter registration for those 18 who pay taxes or have a Social Security Card

Create a flat income tax and only tax income after it reaches $30,000

Do away with tax returns

Raise the Social Security Tax and Medicare tax. Social Security cap is $150,000.

Child care voucher's up to $10,000 a year for those that make less than $100,000 a year.

Automatic healthcare enrollment. With option to withdraw self and receive a tax rebate at the end of the year.

Universal healthcare for those in the military and over 70.

Reform FASFA. Each taxpayer is eligible for $120,00 in aid for a lifetime. Have option to use voucher to pay off any existing Student Loans. Work with private loan companies to creat flat fixed rate loans similar to a mortgage. Encourage growth of scholarships. Encourage States to offer aid and lower tuition at State school's.

Amendment abolishing the Death Penalty

Amendment making abortion illegal after 20 weeks unless for medical reasons

Do away with lobbyist in Congress

Reform political financing and only funded by the public and private means. Do away with using tax dollars to pay for campaigns.

Do away with Common Core. Create a backbone guideline for State's to follow and improve upon. Focused on subjects for different levels of schooling.

Reform minimum wage. Create formula that focus on rent, gas, and taxes. Rebate up to $4,608 for families with 4 dependents make minimum wage and up to $2.40 over minimum wage.

Legalize marijuana.

Create a Department of Mental Health and Addiction

Make undocumented imigration a Civil matter

Decriminalize illicit substances

Work with private prisons and turn over to drug rehab facilities

Create a flat businesses tax for companies.

Do away with red tape in the FDA with regards to pharmaceuticals

Support more agricultural growth and financing sustainable farming

Training for green jobs. Work towards more alternative energy sources. Work towards 2030 tapping into Nuclear fusion.

Expand the Space program.

Expand protecting natural resources and parks. Work with non profit agencies in protecting these resources.

Do away with Electoral College and Popular Vote replace with Rank Choice Voting

Reducing the size of the Federal Government and returning more power to the State's

Create Emergency Healthcare. Tax paid healthcare that covers up to $15,000. Works as uninsured who visit the emergency room or hospital can have up to $15,000 covered of health expenses. Those with insurance will cover the difference after individual used insurance.

Last edited by RunD1987; Yesterday at 05:26 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 05:32 PM
 
14,212 posts, read 6,121,083 times
Reputation: 8859
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollsRoyce1 View Post
Phrasing the question that way, obviously your answer is going to be a no-brainer.

However, the reality is that if we swayed extreme right or extreme left, it would damage our country greatly.

The reality is that our choices are not Far Right or Far Left unless we just zombie/sheep walk our way into that. Which we may. But I would have no interest in answering the question "which would be better or worse for the country" because either would be bad.
The reality is they are pushing for the Green New Deal, which would destroy the country. Whether they can get everything in it or just some, itís not going to be good and worse, it wonít do a thing to address climate change. Itís my opinion that if America falls, there is no one left to pressure China or India to do something about emissions.
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Old Yesterday, 05:36 PM
 
52,003 posts, read 41,844,208 times
Reputation: 32449
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
Your second embolden comment is why no one has come forth and created that center party. It is because that statement is based on a lie.

the CNN Interview with the Ohio family full of former Democrats is the best example of this. The phrase " working class income tax payers" is nothing more than trying to say "Straight and white" in sugarcoated language.
Your attempt to say that though is nothing more than saying that "you hate white people and would like to make it legal to murder and then cannibalize them." in sugar coated language.
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Old Yesterday, 05:37 PM
 
52,003 posts, read 41,844,208 times
Reputation: 32449
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunD1987 View Post
I am hoping for a POTUS and a Congress that will work towards:

Automatic voter registration for those 18 who pay taxes or have a Social Security Card

Create a flat income tax and only tax income after it reaches $30,000

Do away with tax returns

Raise the Social Security Tax and Medicare tax. Social Security cap is $150,000.

Child care voucher's up to $10,000 a year for those that make less than $100,000 a year.

Automatic healthcare enrollment. With option to withdraw self and receive a tax rebate at the end of the year.

Universal healthcare for those in the military and over 70.

Reform FASFA. Each taxpayer is eligible for $120,00 in aid for a lifetime. Have option to use voucher to pay off any existing Student Loans. Work with private loan companies to creat flat fixed rate loans similar to a mortgage. Encourage growth of scholarships. Encourage States to offer aid and lower tuition at State school's.

Amendment abolishing the Death Penalty

Amendment making abortion illegal after 20 weeks unless for medical reasons

Do away with lobbyist in Congress

Reform political financing and only funded by the public and private means. Do away with using tax dollars to pay for campaigns.

Do away with Common Core. Create a backbone guideline for State's to follow and improve upon. Focused on subjects for different levels of schooling.

Reform minimum wage. Create formula that focus on rent, gas, and taxes. Rebate up to $4,608 for families with 4 dependents make minimum wage and up to $2.40 over minimum wage.

Legalize marijuana.

Create a Department of Mental Health and Addiction

Make undocumented imigration a Civil matter

Decriminalize illicit substances

Work with private prisons and turn over to drug rehab facilities

Create a flat businesses tax for companies.

Do away with red tape in the FDA with regards to pharmaceuticals

Support more agricultural growth and financing sustainable farming

Training for green jobs. Work towards more alternative energy sources. Work towards 2030 tapping into Nuclear fusion.

Expand the Space program.

Expand protecting natural resources and parks. Work with non profit agencies in protecting these resources.

Do away with Electoral College and Popular Vote replace with Rank Choice Voting

Reducing the size of the Federal Government and returning more power to the State's

Create Emergency Healthcare. Tax paid healthcare that covers up to $15,000. Works as uninsured who visit the emergency room or hospital can have up to $15,000 covered of health expenses. Those with insurance will cover the difference after individual used insurance.
Good effort. Hardly anyone will read it.
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Old Yesterday, 05:51 PM
 
Location: the Sticks
8,694 posts, read 2,492,368 times
Reputation: 4571
There isn't room for moderates in the two major parties. Those that do exist tend to be shouted down or ignored. Both parties cater to their extremes. Trump/Clinton proved that.

A moderate trying to win in todays system, would be like going to a crooked casino and trying to beat the house. They will allow a few winners from time to time, but the house always wins in the end.

Not so? In how many states are Independents allowed to run or vote in the primaries? Isn't that stacking the deck in the house's favor?

How many tax dollars go to fund the campaigns of independents compared to the GOP and Democrats?

How many lobbyists invest in an independents campaign?

It is a stacked deck, beginning to end.

Still don't believe? Then explain how we were stuck with a choice between Trump or Clinton?
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Old Yesterday, 06:29 PM
 
6,339 posts, read 2,696,430 times
Reputation: 2335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Stop voting altogether.

Voting is an act of violence against your fellow citizen, but The Party (same org, just two factions inside the clubhouse) has you convinced that harming your fellow man is necessary and proper, as well as just plain good for you.

Don't vote for anyone in any party. Your vote was meaningless other than giving implicit sanction to the broken system it is part of, won't change what the elected mafia does once they are elected, and doesn't actually help change anything. If you don't vote, you resist giving your consent, your sanction an your participation in their theater of the absurd.

It's a small thing to others, you holding on to your principles and not compromising them, but it's one of the few things they cannot simply take from you via brute force. You have to give consent. It cannot be forced out of you. Since nothing you do will change how they behave, resist with one of the only real freedoms you have left - opt out of the game entirely and you can always look in the mirror and be satisfied that the person therein didn't simply sigh and play the game.

The longer we sanction their game, the longer they'll keep playing it.
I do not agree with many of your posts but on this one I do.
Both parties serve their wall street and corporate masters over the working American that run this country.
The far left want the cheap illegal labor for their corporate and wall street masters and the far right want wage suppression and trade with slave labor nations for the same reason.

There really is no working class party in this country like there used to be at one time.
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Old Yesterday, 06:36 PM
 
6,339 posts, read 2,696,430 times
Reputation: 2335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Town FFX View Post
+1

I think the far right, and far left have a lot more in common than they'd like to admit.

There needs to be a return to center, compromise, pragmatism, and communicating. THINGS have gotten WAY out of hand.
Whataboutism proves how much the far left and far right have in common.
It is so prevalent on so many points it makes me chuckle.

They talk about deficits, war spending and how much a president from either side golfs that both sides are guilty of and I just sit back and laugh.
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Old Yesterday, 06:40 PM
 
6,934 posts, read 2,536,723 times
Reputation: 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
There really is no working class party in this country like there used to be at one time.
And if there was a working class party, they would promise and carry out harm against what they define as the "enemies of the working class" and do so, ostensibly and most disingenuously, on behalf of the working class.

In other words, even if there were such a party, voting for them would be an act of violence. You would be voting for them in order for them to do violence against others in the name of and for the benefit of the working class as you and they have agreed to define it.

No matter what, you are voting to harm others. All you really choose inside the voting booth is which people get harmed and to what degree.
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