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Old Yesterday, 03:41 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
1,160 posts, read 461,438 times
Reputation: 1136

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I'm in the middle. We are living in the extremes of too far left and right. No party has the welfare of the common law abiding American citizen on there mind.
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Old Yesterday, 05:20 AM
 
6,649 posts, read 3,758,794 times
Reputation: 13725
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
Mathguy, you sometimes have genuinely honest conversations.

(snip)
Assuming he is telling the truth, that means there are about 600,000 voters(give or take) who switched parties because they believe Democrats "only care about gay/black/brown people".

Here is the video. Conversation about Democrats not supporting "working class people" starts at 5:30


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXjw4e_f4JA
This man in this video...that's similar to how I feel, except I'm retired and not worried about a job. I also would call that man "the middle class worker," not "working class." I think of the working class as low income, below the middle class. Waitresses, hotel maids, janitors, WalMart workers, etc. Or maybe that's lower middle class?

I feel similar to that man, except I never would have voted for Trump. I mean, come on. But drowning people will grab a slimy rope.

The Democrats do seem to be all about social causes and the rights of minorities and immigrants. Those things are important, but they seem to put those causes above the interests of the middle class. Pocket book issues. It used to not be that way. Instead of talking about a fair deal, working hard for decades and then being assured that Social Security and Medicare (that you've paid for) is there for you, they seem to talk more about giving away free stuff to people who haven't worked for it. So, I don't know. I don't know if there will be anyone reasonable to vote for, with any chance of winning.
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Old Yesterday, 06:33 AM
 
6,649 posts, read 1,372,282 times
Reputation: 16723
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
This man in this video...that's similar to how I feel, except I'm retired and not worried about a job. I also would call that man "the middle class worker," not "working class." I think of the working class as low income, below the middle class. Waitresses, hotel maids, janitors, WalMart workers, etc. Or maybe that's lower middle class?

I feel similar to that man, except I never would have voted for Trump. I mean, come on. But drowning people will grab a slimy rope.

The Democrats do seem to be all about social causes and the rights of minorities and immigrants. Those things are important, but they seem to put those causes above the interests of the middle class. Pocket book issues. It used to not be that way. Instead of talking about a fair deal, working hard for decades and then being assured that Social Security and Medicare (that you've paid for) is there for you, they seem to talk more about giving away free stuff to people who haven't worked for it. So, I don't know. I don't know if there will be anyone reasonable to vote for, with any chance of winning.
Once again, you have stated exactly what I think. Thank you. (Sorry I could not rep you again.)
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Old Yesterday, 06:42 AM
 
6,649 posts, read 1,372,282 times
Reputation: 16723
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
While im glad to keep it civil, i really dont see how you can "stick to your opinion" here.

Rent and mortgages have nothing to do with legal status. You either pay it or get kicked out/foreclosed on; and the business owner is responsible for making sure taxes are paid based on his reported number of employees.

So the 2 things you specifically listed as your reasoning for beliving what you believe are either 100% wrong, or blaming the wrong people.

A person can be here illegally and be paying the right amount of taxes as long as all legal citizens and companies were doing the right thing.
Did I say that rent and mortgages have something to do with legal status? I did not. (Perhaps you took something I wrote the wrong way?)

And as far as paying the "right" amount of taxes -- yes, that is possible, but how can people pay the right amount of taxes if they are working under the table? And, yes, I do know that plenty of people have "worked under the table -- and not just Democrats and people here illegally, either!! That does not take anything away from what I think, however. I believe that dishonesty is wrong except for some VERY limited circumstances, and none of those circumstances have anything to do with taxes or being in the country illegally. (For example, telling your grandmother you liked she sweater vest she knitted for you, even though you didn't.)
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Old Yesterday, 06:50 AM
 
2,873 posts, read 1,027,260 times
Reputation: 3885
The growing racism (against whites), antisemitism, and violence (Antifa) on the part of the far left is going to continue chasing Moderates away from the Democratic party. Much of the problem is that the extremes are the ones who come out to vote in primaries.
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Old Yesterday, 06:52 AM
 
6,649 posts, read 1,372,282 times
Reputation: 16723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker53 View Post
The growing racism (against whites), antisemitism, and violence (Antifa) on the part of the far left is going to continue chasing Moderates away from the Democratic party. Much of the problem is that the extremes are the ones who come out to vote in primaries.
As a Moderate, I do understand the reasons why many Moderates have chosen to not vote. However, I do vote and will continue to vote -- even if it is just a protest vote -- because to not vote is to say either that you don't care or that you give up. Well, I do care and I won't voluntarily give up my right to express myself.
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Old Yesterday, 07:05 AM
 
12,239 posts, read 9,905,449 times
Reputation: 15861
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
This man in this video...that's similar to how I feel, except I'm retired and not worried about a job. I also would call that man "the middle class worker," not "working class." I think of the working class as low income, below the middle class. Waitresses, hotel maids, janitors, WalMart workers, etc. Or maybe that's lower middle class?

I feel similar to that man, except I never would have voted for Trump. I mean, come on. But drowning people will grab a slimy rope.

The Democrats do seem to be all about social causes and the rights of minorities and immigrants. Those things are important, but they seem to put those causes above the interests of the middle class. Pocket book issues. It used to not be that way. Instead of talking about a fair deal, working hard for decades and then being assured that Social Security and Medicare (that you've paid for) is there for you, they seem to talk more about giving away free stuff to people who haven't worked for it. So, I don't know. I don't know if there will be anyone reasonable to vote for, with any chance of winning.
Operative word. Seem. Strangely the economy has done well under Democratic control Every Single Time. Why is that?
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Old Yesterday, 07:19 AM
 
638 posts, read 134,131 times
Reputation: 1238
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I am starting to think the answer to the question of is there a place for the moderate is I hope not.

I considered myself a moderate for my entire adult life until recently. I feel pushed to a harder stance by the religious and the just-plain-ignorant right who loves the good sounding sound bite that appeals to their sense of superiority. The notion of religious and personal freedom is not real to them except THEIR personal and religious freedom. Their freedom to have their views foisted on others. Oh and the fact that conservative population keeps electing power hungry *******s that trashing the economy every time they are in office.

It is time to toss the moderates into the collateral damage heap of history.
You just described the hard right and the hard left which is what the 2 parties have turned into.
Maybe you don't understand what "moderate" means ?
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Old Yesterday, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
4,955 posts, read 3,684,669 times
Reputation: 4023
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
As a moderate, I find myself now with no party to vote for.

The Republican Party has become something that I don't recognize as even being American. But the Democrats have gone bonkers, with a race to see how far left they can go, and which one can promise to give away more free stuff, and have shifted away from representing the middle class worker.

I'm middle class, retired, and moderate (although liberal ideologically, I'm sill moderate, as opposed to far left, but not tooo far from just to the right of center).

The increasing polarization is leaving the moderate voter out in the cold, or being forced to choose between two extremes. No one seems to represent my interests, anymore.

I guess I'll have to look at the third parties? They can't win and often just serve as spoilers, so I don't know about that. I've been a reliable voter in the past, but I've not run across this situation ever in my adulthood - where neither party represents my interests or people like me.

Anyone else feel the same way?
I haven't voted for either party on the national level in years due to how polarized it is. I like some conservative viewpoint and some liberal viewpoints and typically lean libertarian in the poll booths, but unfortunately you have to follow the money. Money buys votes in this country.
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Old Yesterday, 07:26 AM
 
12,239 posts, read 9,905,449 times
Reputation: 15861
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
You just described the hard right and the hard left which is what the 2 parties have turned into.
Maybe you don't understand what "moderate" means ?
I do. And I believe there is no place for it in this time. I think the only effective reaction to the right is hard.
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