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Old 07-18-2019, 08:10 AM
 
382 posts, read 56,330 times
Reputation: 332

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
Ok, thanks.

As another poster pointed out, there are only 9 million living there. You can't expect the same in America, with 300+ million, half of whom don't pay federal income tax, and with 1 million illegal immigrants coming in every year needing us to educate and feed their children. Just can't compare.

Every person who is for an expanded welfare state in the United States is usually the same type of person that is for "easier immigration."

They don't seem to understand that the two cannot co-exist peacefully for long. Israel is very restrictive on immigration. They can sustain a welfare state.

People who want every poor person in the world to have the opportunity to "make it in America because we are a nation of immigrants" don't understand that it would cripple the social services in this country. Already there is disproportionate burden on the system because of illegals and the children of illegals.

(People aren't smart enough to understand that when illegals have four kids IN AMERICA, the KIDS are entitled to welfare, even if the parents, technically, are not. So anytime you hear that argument the person making it is either ignorant to the real world, or purposely be obtuse to confuse and spread disinformation).
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Austin TX
6,524 posts, read 3,620,113 times
Reputation: 8478
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Let's be somewhat accurate - 330 Million or so likely on the 2020 census.
Fine. Make it 330 million.

So 330 million vs 8 million. That changes my point how?
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:10 AM
 
27,275 posts, read 9,329,355 times
Reputation: 9528
Quote:
Originally Posted by AguaDulce View Post
We send them billion$, yet we supposedly can't take care of our own.

Universal healthcare, free abortion, subsidized college tuition! If Israel can do it, and we respect Israel so much, why can't we?
Put a wall on the border then lets use the money we spend on all the illegal immigrants to fund it !!!

Great place to start !!! Get er done !!!
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:11 AM
 
16,121 posts, read 4,260,553 times
Reputation: 11433
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
I dunno..might be due to economy of scale ? 8 million vs 330 million + 20-30 million illegals ?
Study done on medicare for all has it starting at $30 trillion and going up to $56 trillion.
Where are we going to get that kind of money ?
"illegals" have about zero to do with it even tho they are the flavor of the week. According to Texas economists and even the GOP bigwigs in Austin, they NEED them...and they are a net benefit to the economy. At worst they are even-steven, but my guess is net beneficial (not to say I don't think we should have reform, just talking raw numbers).

Plus, the numbers are likely only 11 million "real" - at most - which represents only a rounding error in our total population when it comes to money or numbers.

Our REAL problems, in order, are:
Cost of Capitalist Predatory Health Care
Cost of the Security State
Cost of interest on the Debt we have built up due to the above (almost a TRILLION per year).
Free Money we give out from Debt and Deficit for Political or Ideological reasons ("tax cuts")

Everything else is related to those....
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Austin TX
6,524 posts, read 3,620,113 times
Reputation: 8478
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
"illegals" have about zero to do with it even tho they are the flavor of the week. According to Texas economists and even the GOP bigwigs in Austin, they NEED them...and they are a net benefit to the economy. At worst they are ever-seven.

Plus, the numbers are likely only 11 million "real" - at most - which represents only a rounding error in our total population when it comes to money or numbers.

Our REAL problems, in order, are:
Cost of Capitalist Predatory Health Care
Cost of the Security State
Cost of interest on the Debt we have built up due to the above (almost a TRILLION per year).

Everything else is related to those....
Could you please provide some proof of this claim?
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:14 AM
 
Location: SGV
25,243 posts, read 9,852,030 times
Reputation: 9834
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHenriques1147 View Post
I honestly could give two god damns what happens to the Middle East. Israel included. The entire area could disappear tomorrow and nobody would even notice since (outside of Israel) that region contributes nothing of to the world except terrorism, religion extremism and oil.


But, so long as the political realities are what they are, and so long as the Middle East has been engaged in a 1400 year quest to subjugate the world, we will always have to keep a wary eye on that region. Lest people forget that up until WW1 the Ottoman Empire was one of the most enduring and brutal forces in the world, with occupation tentacles that reached into Europe.
And that's fine. I'm just saying that if you believe in preemptive force to possibly prevent future force against you that morally and logically there isn't a single principle or outcome (means and ends) where a few eggs don't get broke.

"Political realities" are universal like that. It's why I don't believe in politics in the first place. Cut out the middle man.
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:15 AM
 
16,121 posts, read 4,260,553 times
Reputation: 11433
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX Wahine View Post
Fine. Make it 330 million.

So 330 million vs 8 million. That changes my point how?
Not very much - but being off 250% of the entire Population of Israel isn't my game.

I'm a numbers guy and like to deal in basic facts. If we all exaggerate everything...well, we see the situation in the USA today as what happens.
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:16 AM
 
16,121 posts, read 4,260,553 times
Reputation: 11433
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post

"Political realities" are universal like that. It's why I don't believe in politics in the first place. Cut out the middle man.
Right, so when your family member is murdered, you just decide to murder two of theirs and things will work out perfectly.

Heck, some countries already take that tack. I'm 100% sure you will not be moving there.
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:18 AM
 
1,524 posts, read 301,945 times
Reputation: 1790
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
"illegals" have about zero to do with it even tho they are the flavor of the week. According to Texas economists and even the GOP bigwigs in Austin, they NEED them...and they are a net benefit to the economy. At worst they are even-steven, but my guess is net beneficial (not to say I don't think we should have reform, just talking raw numbers).

Plus, the numbers are likely only 11 million "real" - at most - which represents only a rounding error in our total population when it comes to money or numbers.

Our REAL problems, in order, are:
Cost of Capitalist Predatory Health Care
Cost of the Security State
Cost of interest on the Debt we have built up due to the above (almost a TRILLION per year).
Free Money we give out from Debt and Deficit for Political or Ideological reasons ("tax cuts")

Everything else is related to those....
Like it or not illegals do use our services; some with welfare, some with state subsidies and others for free.

You can't ignore the illegals when it comes to cost because they will use the facilities (hospitals, doctors, schools) regardless if you count them or not.

So you better count them.
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:19 AM
 
9,840 posts, read 2,421,277 times
Reputation: 4875
Why can't the USA be more like Israel? Universal healthcare, free abortion, subsidized college tuition!

We can't afford those things, we conserve money to subsidize Israel.
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