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Old 07-22-2019, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,909 posts, read 4,471,406 times
Reputation: 1421

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHenriques1147 View Post
No. The Declaration of Independence does not inform US immigration law.

Do you think that the preamble stands for the proposition that there should be no immigration laws? Because "everyone is equal"?

Is that how you're trying to justify an open borders mindset?



Nah, it's people like you who don't "get" how things like "laws" work. Might be why you have such a confusing time with this "illegal" vs. "legal" immigration thing.



Case in point: My family are LEGAL immigrants. People running across the border or overstaying visas are ILLEGAL immigrants.


People who are here ILLEGALLY need to go "back to where they came from."
The declaration of independence in saying that 'all men are created equal' does not give specific status of that man ...
Quote:
Do you think that the preamble stands for the proposition that there should be no immigration laws? Because "everyone is equal"?
Jurisdiction ... ? If a person is on u.s. soil, they are equal, which means they deserve every right given to them by our laws, which is what? You're a citizen, you know your rights and your rights are their rights, as well. The Declaration of Independence was not written with a prejudicial heart, but it was written 100 years before black people and women were given equal standing with in the laws of this land, though.

So while the Declaration is not prejudice ... the heart of man is and that is where the people have come in, with the pitch forks. Citizenship doesn't mean squat if the person is on the wrong side of the politics.
Quote:
Case in point: My family are LEGAL immigrants.
In 2002 Pres. Bush through policy, incarcerated over 3000 Muslim u.s. citizens without due process, because their last names were Muslim. No one said a thing about it ... and you think your special, because you did something perhaps the right way? Those Muslims came into this country the right way too and it didn't matter and if I were you, I'd carry those papers on you at all time, least you get swept up in a sting ... I am not joking. But if you are a white immigrant ... you have less to worry about. See how that works?
Quote:
justify an open borders mindset?
If I went through the laws of the Bible, I'd say:
Leviticus 19:33-34 ESV

“When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God."


If I go through science, I'd say, if man had not migrated out of Africa onto other continents, we'd still be there believing the world was flat. Migration of man is as natural as evolution itself.


Utilizing political history:

"That a man ought not to be a slave; that he should not be confined against his will to a particular spot because he happened to draw his first breath upon it; that he should not be compelled to continue in a society to which he is accidentally attached, when he can better his situation elsewhere, much less when he must starve in one country, and may live comfortably in another, are positions which I hold as strongly as any man, and they are such as most nations in the world appear clearly to recognize." ~ Justice James Iredell ~
__________________________

If I went through the laws of this land, a person is not illegal if they just walk across the boarder and step onto the u.s. They are a human being, up until that point, in which for every moment after that, they are dehumanized, whether it is something the law allows or not, it will happen just the same.

 
Old 07-22-2019, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,909 posts, read 4,471,406 times
Reputation: 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker53 View Post
It is quite a stretch to interpret equality of human beings with allowing open borders.
Not a stretch ... just logical. But if people allowed logic to dictate their actions the u.s. wouldn't be the AHs in this situation, now would we? The fact that we don't mind being the AHs, in this situation means, we're not the Americans of the Declaration of Independence, but the result of what happens when something sits stewing for a lengthy period of time, and it stinks. Can you smell it? I can smell it ... decay of the American Dream.
 
Old 07-22-2019, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
1,171 posts, read 588,510 times
Reputation: 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Jurisdiction ... ? If a person is on u.s. soil, they are equal, which means they deserve every right given to them by our laws,


They're not US citizens, they don't deserve nor are entitled to diddly squat from us. But they sure get it anyway.
 
Old 07-23-2019, 06:03 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,909 posts, read 4,471,406 times
Reputation: 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister 7 View Post


They're not US citizens, they don't deserve nor are entitled to diddly squat from us. But they sure get it anyway.
Quote:
They're not US citizens
The Declaration of Independence makes no such distinctions. They are here; they are Human Beings; deserving of their human rights, just like any one else, present on u.s. soil. Agree with it or not, it is what it is ... Just as their human rights can and have been revoked, the same can happen and has happened those whose status is that of citizen present on u.s. soil, policies of the WH dictating such actions to be carried out. History teaches, yet we learn nothing. For the u.s. to continue to claim moral authority is an oxymoron as it continues to see and treat people as political symbols rather than that of a human being.

Ten Human Rights Standards Implicated by U.S. Immigration Policy Changes
“Seeking asylum is not a crime, and neither is entering a country irregularly.”
 
Old 07-23-2019, 06:07 AM
 
5,665 posts, read 1,521,511 times
Reputation: 3491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
The Declaration of Independence makes no such distinctions. They are here; they are Human Beings; deserving of their human rights, just like any one else, present on u.s. soil. Agree with it or not, it is what it is ... Just as their human rights can and have been revoked, the same can happen and has happened those whose status is that of citizen present on u.s. soil, policies of the WH dictating such actions to be carried out. History teaches, yet we learn nothing. For the u.s. to continue to claim moral authority is an oxymoron as it continues to see and treat people as political symbols rather than that of a human being.

Ten Human Rights Standards Implicated by U.S. Immigration Policy Changes
“Seeking asylum is not a crime, and neither is entering a country irregularly.”
All human beings deserve basic rights of the right to live. They do not, however 'deserve,' nor do they have the same rights as American citizens or lawfully present residents. Illegals have the rights of due process for example, but they do not have the right to employment, for example.

You are frightfully uneducated.
 
Old 07-23-2019, 06:41 AM
 
4,076 posts, read 1,246,420 times
Reputation: 3207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
The declaration of independence in saying that 'all men are created equal' does not give specific status of that man ...
Jurisdiction ... ? If a person is on u.s. soil, they are equal, which means they deserve every right given to them by our laws, which is what? You're a citizen, you know your rights and your rights are their rights, as well. The Declaration of Independence was not written with a prejudicial heart, but it was written 100 years before black people and women were given equal standing with in the laws of this land, though.

So while the Declaration is not prejudice ... the heart of man is and that is where the people have come in, with the pitch forks. Citizenship doesn't mean squat if the person is on the wrong side of the politics.
In 2002 Pres. Bush through policy, incarcerated over 3000 Muslim u.s. citizens without due process, because their last names were Muslim. No one said a thing about it ... and you think your special, because you did something perhaps the right way? Those Muslims came into this country the right way too and it didn't matter and if I were you, I'd carry those papers on you at all time, least you get swept up in a sting ... I am not joking. But if you are a white immigrant ... you have less to worry about. See how that works?
If I went through the laws of the Bible, I'd say:
Leviticus 19:33-34 ESV

“When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God."


If I go through science, I'd say, if man had not migrated out of Africa onto other continents, we'd still be there believing the world was flat. Migration of man is as natural as evolution itself.


Utilizing political history:

"That a man ought not to be a slave; that he should not be confined against his will to a particular spot because he happened to draw his first breath upon it; that he should not be compelled to continue in a society to which he is accidentally attached, when he can better his situation elsewhere, much less when he must starve in one country, and may live comfortably in another, are positions which I hold as strongly as any man, and they are such as most nations in the world appear clearly to recognize." ~ Justice James Iredell ~
__________________________

If I went through the laws of this land, a person is not illegal if they just walk across the boarder and step onto the u.s. They are a human being, up until that point, in which for every moment after that, they are dehumanized, whether it is something the law allows or not, it will happen just the same.
That's a very cute long story that didn't cite any actual immigration law. I'm surprised you didn't reference the statue of liberty poem.
 
Old 07-23-2019, 08:33 AM
 
1,231 posts, read 190,873 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
The Declaration of Independence makes no such distinctions. They are here; they are Human Beings; deserving of their human rights, just like any one else, present on u.s. soil. Agree with it or not, it is what it is ... Just as their human rights can and have been revoked, the same can happen and has happened those whose status is that of citizen present on u.s. soil, policies of the WH dictating such actions to be carried out. History teaches, yet we learn nothing. For the u.s. to continue to claim moral authority is an oxymoron as it continues to see and treat people as political symbols rather than that of a human being.

Ten Human Rights Standards Implicated by U.S. Immigration Policy Changes
“Seeking asylum is not a crime, and neither is entering a country irregularly.”
why don't you go to any country (preferably a first world country) in the world and tell them that you deserve every rights (employment, benefits, vote, etc) that their citizens are getting.


come back here and tell us how that goes
 
Old 07-23-2019, 08:50 AM
 
10,440 posts, read 9,432,360 times
Reputation: 16080
They were offered asylum in Mexico but they refused and kept trekking to the United States.

Mexico is a beautiful country BUT they won't get the freebies the dems want to hand out in gift bags as they cross our border.

AND the dems can get them to vote illegally for the democratic party.

AMAZING that you won't see dems rushing to the border to offer sponsorship for the ILLEGAL ALIENS, take them into their homes and provide housing, food, clothing, transportation, etc.

Nothing but lip service.
 
Old 07-23-2019, 11:26 AM
 
2,918 posts, read 1,042,002 times
Reputation: 3992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Not a stretch ... just logical. But if people allowed logic to dictate their actions the u.s. wouldn't be the AHs in this situation, now would we? The fact that we don't mind being the AHs, in this situation means, we're not the Americans of the Declaration of Independence, but the result of what happens when something sits stewing for a lengthy period of time, and it stinks. Can you smell it? I can smell it ... decay of the American Dream.
So, you're OK is 10 million uneducated unskilled illegals come in every year going forward? How about 50 million a year? A hundred million? There's no shortage of poor people around the world who might want the US to shower them with freebies.
 
Old 07-23-2019, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
1,171 posts, read 588,510 times
Reputation: 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
The Declaration of Independence makes no such distinctions. They are here; they are Human Beings; deserving of their human rights, just like any one else, present on u.s. soil. Agree with it or not, it is what it is ... Just as their human rights can and have been revoked, the same can happen and has happened those whose status is that of citizen present on u.s. soil, policies of the WH dictating such actions to be carried out. History teaches, yet we learn nothing. For the u.s. to continue to claim moral authority is an oxymoron as it continues to see and treat people as political symbols rather than that of a human being.

Ten Human Rights Standards Implicated by U.S. Immigration Policy Changes
“Seeking asylum is not a crime, and neither is entering a country irregularly.”
My heart bleeds. Your little source is clearly biased.

Being from a crappy country and poor doesn't equal asylum.

I don't think they deserve squat--they broke the law by entering illegally. If I break the law and get caught--guess what--I go to jail. I don't have kids but if I did and was arrested with them...gasp...I'd be separated from them.
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