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Old Today, 12:38 AM
 
18,955 posts, read 7,367,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Trying to hamper technological innovation is not progress IMO. Its the opposite. Technological innovation is not an unintended consequence. Its at the heart of economic development. Slavery and drudgery jobs is truly not progress. The more technology and fewer drudgery jobs there are, the better for society. By your logic, we would be better off with most people in backbreaking jobs working for a pittance.

We would be best off reducing immigration levels to the tiny amount we allowed 1924-1965, which would reduce the US population somewhat in the process, as contrary to your utopian fantasy, tens of millions displaced will not rise in skill sets, but simply be permanently unemployable. Perhaps if we did not import our lettuce pickers or day labor at DIY shops, the less skilled, now displaced, might find alternative jobs.

Are you out of touch so much as to think todays cashier at a big box is 2025's coder of software? 99.9% will not be able to make that transition. And, UBI will, Thankfully not occur.

Controlling the labor supply is the best solution.
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Old Today, 12:42 AM
 
18,955 posts, read 7,367,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
.

Its interesting that Trump supporters brag about the 50 year unemployment low, black unemployment numbers under Trump while places all over America have increased the minimum wage which we were told would lead to disaster and skyrocketing unemployment and dangerous automation.

Its time to change strategy. The scaremongering isnt working.
I work in NYC and have seen the reduction in headcount caused by the $15 mw. NYC is an outlier.

MW has mainly spiked sharply in far less populated environments, but for the vast majority of Americans, MW is $9 or less, which means you have no data to suggest MW tremendous spikes will not reduce employment. You have tiny pockets that have changed the MW by a giant %.

:
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Old Today, 12:46 AM
 
12,906 posts, read 4,662,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
We would be best off reducing immigration levels to the tiny amount we allowed 1924-1965, which would reduce the US population somewhat in the process, as contrary to your utopian fantasy, tens of millions displaced will not rise in skill sets, but simply be permanently unemployable. Perhaps if we did not import our lettuce pickers or day labor at DIY shops, the less skilled, now displaced, might find alternative jobs.

Are you out of touch so much as to think todays cashier at a big box is 2025's coder of software? 99.9% will not be able to make that transition. And, UBI will, Thankfully not occur.

Controlling the labor supply is the best solution.
This is the type of argument that was used to defend slavery. Slave owners told the people that it would lead to permanently unemployable masses. And they made the argument that since they owned the labor, they had an incentive to treat the labor force better than the employers who simply rented the labor by paying a wage and could throw the worker out on the streets when it had been abused enough, like the factory workers of the 19th century were.

Why push that strategy? People have been using the threat of technology for their own sinister means for eternity. Its always a failed strategy. And extremely regressive.
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Old Today, 12:50 AM
 
12,906 posts, read 4,662,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
I work in NYC and have seen the reduction in headcount caused by the $15 mw. NYC is an outlier.

MW has mainly spiked sharply in far less populated environments, but for the vast majority of Americans, MW is $9 or less, which means you have no data to suggest MW tremendous spikes will not reduce employment. You have tiny pockets that have changed the MW by a giant %.

:
Anecdotes mean nothing and you know you would blame MW increases if Trump ruled over an economy with high black unemployment rates.

You can downplay the minimum wage increases as small and insignificant now, but that sure wasnt the tune we heard when states and cities were preparing to raise them. The sky would fall in California, NYC and the rest of the places that raised it we were told.
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Old Today, 12:56 AM
 
18,955 posts, read 7,367,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
This is the type of argument that was used to defend slavery. .
Totally red herring argument.

In this era, unlike slavery, we will have tens of millions in surplus labor. We will soon see massive automation. Virtually all unskilled jobs are at risk. Any rote task -no jobs. 70% of the nation has no formal education past 12th grade.

That's the game changer.

PS: California in 2019 has a population more than 10% higher than the US when slavery was abolished.
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Old Today, 01:04 AM
 
12,906 posts, read 4,662,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Totally red herring argument.

In this era, unlike slavery, we will have tens of millions in surplus labor. We will soon see massive automation. Virtually all unskilled jobs are at risk. Any rote task -no jobs. 70% of the nation has no formal education past 12th grade.

That's the game changer.

PS: California in 2019 has a population more than 10% higher than the US when slavery was abolished.
Hundreds of millions of new jobs have been created since people started to fear technology. Jobs people didnt think would exist. The reality is that defending drudgery and misery in order to prevent technological progress is as backward and regressive as it gets.
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Old Today, 08:41 AM
 
714 posts, read 147,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Funny how countries with far higher labor costs for those type of jobs than America have higher labor force participation rates, no problem with automation, no problem with inflation and retirees doing just fine. So all your "concerns" fly out the window.

Its interesting that Trump supporters brag about the 50 year unemployment low, black unemployment numbers under Trump while places all over America have increased the minimum wage which we were told would lead to disaster and skyrocketing unemployment and dangerous automation.

Its time to change strategy. The scaremongering isnt working.
Maybe you haven't gone to a MacDonald's that's had their renovation.
The new MacDonalds have 6-8 kiosks and 1-2 human cashier spots.

Maybe you haven't been to Walmart where they have self checkout corrals at each end with 8+ self checkouts and 2-3 human cashier lines open.

Maybe you haven't been to Home Depot where they have 6-8 self checkouts and 1 human checkout at the contractor area.
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Old Today, 08:46 AM
 
4,659 posts, read 2,934,575 times
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just what we need. the federal government wage fixing.
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Old Today, 08:48 AM
 
12,906 posts, read 4,662,023 times
Reputation: 5249
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Maybe you haven't gone to a MacDonald's that's had their renovation.
The new MacDonalds have 6-8 kiosks and 1-2 human cashier spots.

Maybe you haven't been to Walmart where they have self checkout corrals at each end with 8+ self checkouts and 2-3 human cashier lines open.

Maybe you haven't been to Home Depot where they have 6-8 self checkouts and 1 human checkout at the contractor area.
I have and they are in areas with low wages and in areas with high wages...Fighting technology is futile and silly.
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Old Today, 08:56 AM
 
18,956 posts, read 9,661,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
I have and they are in areas with low wages and in areas with high wages...Fighting technology is futile and silly.
But enslaving people is great!
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