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Old Yesterday, 10:49 PM
 
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Better to spend it at NASA than on the dumb Pentagon programs.
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Old Yesterday, 11:06 PM
 
Location: the Sticks
8,701 posts, read 2,494,106 times
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I am a fan of NASA. NASA represents the best we can be, and at one time we were the giants. America had something real to be proud of. From The Apollo missions to Skylab, we were proud. I loved watching shuttle launches. I watched when we first landed on the moon. Some things you just can't put a price tag on.

Some mention the huge sums that we have invested. Lets exam some other investments. Haiti? Israel? The F-35? The Ford Class Carrier? A bridge to no where? Boston's famous tunnel? We spent billions on the ACA web sight. Just the web sight.

So many of today's innovations came from NASA.

We have surrendered our ability to travel into space without the help of our enemy. On what planet does that make sense? It is taking us longer to reinvent manned flight then it took us to develop in the first place.

Do we really want Russia and China in space unchecked?
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Old Today, 01:03 AM
 
4,586 posts, read 903,785 times
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At least NASA is arguably 1 of the least-criticized federal government agencies.
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Old Today, 05:01 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,398 posts, read 2,985,173 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Better to spend it at NASA than on the dumb Pentagon programs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
I am a fan of NASA. NASA represents the best we can be, and at one time we were the giants. America had something real to be proud of. From The Apollo missions to Skylab, we were proud. I loved watching shuttle launches. I watched when we first landed on the moon. Some things you just can't put a price tag on.

Some mention the huge sums that we have invested. Lets exam some other investments. Haiti? Israel? The F-35? The Ford Class Carrier? A bridge to no where? Boston's famous tunnel? We spent billions on the ACA web sight. Just the web sight.

So many of today's innovations came from NASA.

We have surrendered our ability to travel into space without the help of our enemy. On what planet does that make sense? It is taking us longer to reinvent manned flight then it took us to develop in the first place.

Do we really want Russia and China in space unchecked?
What I see you guys saying is, "Look at these other programs to cut some funding from."

We could spend some money to send people to Mars on fusion power research. In 2014 fusion power researchers in the U.S. received 505 million from the federal government...and they were asking for more. I assume they aren't getting it. I say we give them as much as they want. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fusio...ctor_n_6438772

A manned mission to Mars would cost billions.

The expert panel puts the total cost of a 20-year program culminating in a manned mission to Mars in the range of $80 to $100 billion. NASA already spends around $4 billion a year on exploration programs; most of that is devoted to developing the Orion spacecraft and a new rocket that would one day carry astronauts to Mars or other deep-space destinations. The agency spends nearly $4 billion more on operating the International Space Station in low Earth orbit. https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...science-space/

NASA is talking about designing a better spacefaring vehicle to more easily head to the Moon and back again that would cost over a hundred billion, according to NBC news:

The $104 billion plan calls for an Apollo-like vehicle to carry crews of up to four astronauts to the moon for seven-day stays on the lunar surface. The spacecraft, known as the Crew Exploration Vehicle or CEV, could even carry six-astronaut crews to the international space station or fly automated resupply shipments as needed, NASA Administrator Michael Griffin said.
“Think of it as Apollo on steroids,” Griffin said as he unveiled the agency’s lunar exploration plan during a much-anticipated press conference at its Washington headquarters. “Unless the U.S. wants to get out of manned spaceflight completely, this is the vehicle we need to be building.”

NASA estimates $104 billion for return to moon - Technology & science - Space - Space.com | NBC News

Meanwhile, back in 2018 Trump was trying to dramatically cut clean energy research:

Electric vehicle research would take an especially big hit, the Post reports, cut to $56 million from the current $307 million level. Fuel efficient vehicle research would be cut 82%, bioenergy funding by 82% and solar funding by 75%.https://www.utilitydive.com/news/rep...search/516105/

Note that that's millions of dollars...not billions.

These clean energy techs are the sorts of inventions that will help our species literally survive...and we're ignoring that stuff so that we can send humans to Mars. I'm even not necessarily opposed to that...because a lot has already bee invested into it, just so long as they don't go back a second time, including sending rovers and exploratory vessels.

We have private organizations talking about colonizing Mars...which would be just flushing billions down the toilet to send people to live in an irradiated desert, until they figure out it's an irradiated desert, and want to come home (or if not them, their kids)...but they can't because it'll cost billions, and then Mars ceases becoming a magical land of the future that inspires the world, and turns into a planet-wide prison colony in which we jail the foolishly idealistic.

I'm just saying...there are a lot of people with their heads rammed up their arses. I don't exactly know what programs should be cut, but I'm imagining there are some that can, which don't really help humanity out in noteworthy ways.

Last edited by Clintone; Today at 05:09 AM..
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Old Today, 05:53 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
1,162 posts, read 462,177 times
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Space is the only place every country can work together. If NASA was used more on joint missions with other countries it would be a stepping stone to putting aside all our childish bickering over borders, oil, power, religion etc.

Science and Mathematics is the only universal language and the more we know the better we will be.

Humanity needs something to look forward to, a mission to mars or finding life on Titan would give us a big boost.
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Old Today, 06:02 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,398 posts, read 2,985,173 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpinionExperience View Post
Space is the only place every country can work together. If NASA was used more on joint missions with other countries it would be a stepping stone to putting aside all our childish bickering over borders, oil, power, religion etc.

Science and Mathematics is the only universal language and the more we know the better we will be.

Humanity needs something to look forward to, a mission to mars or finding life on Titan would give us a big boost.
Possibly...but it might also do the opposite.

I read part of a book about a guy who spent some amount of time trying to have 0 carbon output. He'd ask for fast food without wrappers. He'd use washcloths rather than Kleenexes...that sort of thing. I don't like to think about what he used for toilet paper. It was more of an experiment than anything that most people would ever practice...but he learned some stuff.

Let's say a lot of people adopted more moderate versions of that. They have more reasonable lives than that person...but they're still doing a lot to reduce their carbon output. They're thinking about it frequently. It takes time away from their daily lives and time that they could be spending with their kids or relaxing or whatever.

Then, they find out NASA is spending 200 billion dollars to make going to the moon and spaceflight easier, and to go back to Mars, and less than that is being spent on the fusion power research that could provide clean energy without nuclear waste that's more reliable than wind or solar.

Is that going to be inspiring to them, or depressing? Is that more likely to make them want to assist the species, or think something more like, "Well, all my efforts are pretty much for nothing compared to that. Screw it."

We can look forward to the long term survival of the species...and that's a more real, concrete kind of benefit than going to Mars or exploring Titan. We could cooperate with other nations on handling environmental problems.
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Old Today, 06:19 AM
 
Location: the Sticks
8,701 posts, read 2,494,106 times
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Actually, my point stands. The money we invest in. NASA absolutely has resulted in innovations later used in civilian life. The money is far better spent on NASA than on crap holes like Haiti where billions have been dumped.
40 million dollar gas station in Afghanistan.
The trillion spent on the F-35 dud.
The 14 billion on an aircraft carrier that is all but useless.

The billions spent on the literal combat ships.
That isn't even addressing the billions spent on Israel and foreign aid to other countries, while we have 600,000 homeless.

Lets talk department of energy. requested 37 billion and most people without googling could not name 3 things that department delivers.


I can go on and on. NASA is not our worst or even nearly biggest waste. The State Department 47 billion.. Ever use their services over seas? $50 for a notary stamp.

NASA gets lets than half.
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Old Today, 06:34 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
10,018 posts, read 8,101,457 times
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Follow the money.

There is money to be made in climate change. NASA is chasing that money.
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Old Today, 06:37 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
1,162 posts, read 462,177 times
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We should be celebrating the 50th anniversary of landing on the moon, instead Trump is spreading racism.

We haven't changed much since then, we are in a war with no exit plan for 18 years, racism is still strong and a President drowning in corruption of his own doing.
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Old Today, 06:38 AM
 
339 posts, read 240,712 times
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While NASA has very specific missions, the influence the knowledge gained from working toward those missions is much more widespread.

NASA collects tons of data on near planets. Learning about other environments further enriches our understanding of our own, especially on what environments can exist and how they function outside our narrow view. Out of the many agencies there are few I wish could receive more funding, and NASA is one of them.

And I am not sure why you are using Fusion as an example. That would fall under the Department of Energy who also has a research aspect to it. https://www.energy.gov/science/artic...h-practicality Look at their budget which gets stifled as well.

I think you have to remember that science doesn't necessarily exist in a bubble. Advances in one location can be used to address a problem in another area of research and move that field forward. Maybe it is possible in that figuring out how to improve a vehicle for continuous operation in the harshness of space will provide better insight into a more robust reaction chamber for fusion reaction.

My opinion is science is generally worth the cost, even in failure we learn.
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