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Old 07-19-2019, 11:16 AM
 
2,808 posts, read 931,709 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpinionExperience View Post
We should be celebrating the 50th anniversary of landing on the moon, instead Trump is spreading racism.

We haven't changed much since then, we are in a war with no exit plan for 18 years, racism is still strong and a President drowning in corruption of his own doing.
No the Dem libs are spreading the racism.

Look at what Obama said during his presidency. Wow! He said immigrants must learn English. LOL Imagine the outcry from Trump saying that, and other things that Obama has said.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVuuzTJBE5Y
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Old 07-19-2019, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,475 posts, read 3,013,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FC76-81 View Post
Our solar system is destined to end. Granted it won't start to occur for a few billion years, but eventually our solar system will be no more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FC76-81 View Post
That's correct. Computers, monitors, communication technology, etc. that makes our everyday life is because of much of what NASA has done during projects in the 50's, 60's, 70's and up to current.

The big picture with Earth, Man and our existence is, the planet Earth and even the Sun isn't going to exist forever, even if we were the most cleanest. The Sun has a lifespan and there will come a day when the Sun no longer supports life on Earth. So the big deal with NASA is finding a way Mankind can find another home when this one reaches it's end of existence.

This is what is on Wikipedia about the sun, cut to the chase:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun#Af...gen_exhaustion
Which is 100% totally inconsequential, given far long in the future that will be.

Many clever people do want humanity to begin fleeing Earth pretty soon. Stephen Hawking was one of these people. He thought Earth would be uninhabitable in a thousand years, so we need to start colonizing another planet in the next hundred. I don't understand his thought process. To me, that seems far too soon to begin colonizing somewhere else to be useful...but then again, I don't know what kinds of advancements we'll make near the end of the century. It just seems to me that the year 2000 doesn't seem a whole lot different from the year 2019.

I'd expect that what would happen if we attempt to colonize off-world environments anytime this century is that it'll be outrageously expensive. Then, the colonists will soon return to Earth after the charm wears off and they realize just how much more Earth has than anywhere else in the solar system. Then everybody will forget about the endeavor. Then, a century or two later they'll invent better technology that makes living off-world genuinely comfortable, safe, and pleasant, and only then will it become permanently popular, and most of the knowledge learned from past attempts will be useless because the people there will have very different lifestyles and be in very different environments because of all the new technologies they've developed.

For all we know in the future we could have computers that work countless times faster than our current ones and can solve problems relating to off-world colonization with ease.

Maybe further towards the end of the century it could be worth it to begin colonizing off-world environments. I just see no way it could be worth it now. Large groups of people on Mars aren't really producing anything of value that they couldn't be producing on Earth...and it's costing billions to send them there. I don't know how they'd pay back that investment...especially if they discover they have no interest in a permanent residence there after a few years, which I bet most of them would...judging by how few people have any interest in living in Antarctica. From what I've read that place has zero permanent residents.

Last edited by Clintone; 07-19-2019 at 12:24 PM..
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Old 07-19-2019, 12:32 PM
 
2,808 posts, read 931,709 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
Which is 100% totally inconsequential, given far long in the future that will be.

Many clever people do want humanity to begin fleeing Earth pretty soon. Stephen Hawking was one of these people. He thought Earth would be uninhabitable in a thousand years, so we need to start colonizing another planet in the next hundred. I don't understand his thought process. To me, that seems far too soon to begin colonizing somewhere else to be useful...but then again, I don't know what kinds of advancements we'll make near the end of the century. It just seems to me that the year 2000 doesn't seem a whole lot different from the year 2019.

I'd expect that what would happen if we attempt to colonize off-world environments anytime this century is that it'll be outrageously expensive. Then, the colonists will soon return to Earth after the charm wears off and they realize just how much more Earth has than anywhere else in the solar system. Then everybody will forget about the endeavor. Then, a century or two later they'll invent better technology that makes living off-world genuinely comfortable, safe, and pleasant, and only then will it become permanently popular, and most of the knowledge learned from past attempts will be useless because the people there will have very different lifestyles and be in very different environments because of all the new technologies they've developed.

For all we know in the future we could have computers that work countless times faster than our current ones and can solve problems relating to off-world colonization with ease.

Maybe further towards the end of the century it could be worth it to begin colonizing off-world environments. I just see no way it could be worth it now. Large groups of people on Mars aren't really producing anything of value that they couldn't be producing on Earth...and it's costing billions to send them there. I don't know how they'd pay back that investment...especially if they discover they have no interest in a permanent residence there after a few years, which I bet most of them would...judging by how few people have any interest in living in Antarctica. From what I've read that place has zero permanent residents.
Obviously you don't fully understand what "lessons learned" means. To put it in laymen's terms, it's like you asking: "why wasn't some of the very first main stream cell phones being manufactured in the mid 90's made just like the IPhone 10+ is today?". Or, "why didn't Ford make the model T with fuel injection, crumple zones and airbags?". Mankind can't sustain life outside the solar system until they find a way to do it away from Earth within our own solar system. Lessons learned data.
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Old 07-19-2019, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,475 posts, read 3,013,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FC76-81 View Post
Obviously you don't fully understand what "lessons learned" means. To put it in laymen's terms, it's like you asking: "why wasn't some of the very first main stream cell phones being manufactured in the mid 90's made just like the IPhone 10+ is today?". Or, "why didn't Ford make the model T with fuel injection, crumple zones and airbags?". Mankind can't sustain life outside the solar system until they find a way to do it away from Earth within our own solar system. Lessons learned data.
That's a different situation. The first cell phones invented and the first vehicles helped society as soon as they were made. Colonizing off-world environments won't. You're basically advocating mass-producing the plane the Wright Brothers few. There are good reasons they waited to improve the thing before doing that. Our computers and technology will rapidly advance in time, and all this stuff should become a lot easier naturally over time. I see colonizing off world environments now, or soon, like doing something that provides no positive results that would be easier to do in the future.

Maybe we could get useful rare Earth elements from colonizing the moon. It might be worth it to go there, given that it could be also used as a training grounds for space exploration, and lots of useful experiments could be done in the low gravity, and it could be a safer place for space-related activities than around the Earth due to the lack of space debris...but that depends on just what is up there, and we'd have to spend resources to find that out. Also, even if it pays off over the long run, there are lots of other things we could be doing that will definitely pay off over the long run.

Maybe we could get useful resources from colonizing and/or mining the asteroid belt...but that'd be an even longer term project.

Also, while Mars and Earth's moon are the only off-world sites we stand a chance of being able have long term colonies on anytime soon...I'm wondering if Venus would actually be a far better planet to colonize over the long run, that might make colonizing Mars totally undesirable. Venus, at a certain altitude, is more Earthlike than anywhere else in the solar system:

Amazingly, if you rise up through the clouds of Venus to an altitude of 50-60 kilometers, the atmospheric pressure and temperature are the same as on Earth. The atmosphere would still be toxic carbon dioxide, but breathable air would be a “lifting gas” on Venus. You could float around the skies of Venus in a balloon made of breathable air. Stand out on the deck of your Venusian sky city in shorts and a T-shirt, soaking up the sunlight in regular Earth gravity. https://www.universetoday.com/14472/...h-like-planet/

I don't know what can be done about Mars' low gravity. That may just make it permanently uninhabitable...or at least undesirable enough that nobody ever wants to remain there for long. That would apply even more to the moon.

There are a lot possible future discoveries that could render lots of our work totally obsolete...so I think it's important not to invest a lot of money into off-world colonization until we're pretty sure it'll be permanent, or at least might give something back like through asteroid mining...which is probably a long way off.

Colonizing Mars will almost surely neither result in permanent residences nor give anything back.

Last edited by Clintone; 07-19-2019 at 01:19 PM..
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Old 07-19-2019, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,470 posts, read 22,037,851 times
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to summarize the Luddite perspective; "NASA Bad"
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Old 07-19-2019, 01:15 PM
 
Location: San Diego
5,242 posts, read 1,438,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
NASA is a major source of information on climate change. We're constantly hearing about how dangerous it is...and yet NASA still engages in projects like proposing sending people to Mars, or back to the moon.

It would probably convince many people that we are in a climate emergency if a major organization stating that climate change is largely manmade would scrap all projects not related to the long term survival of the species.
TRANSLATION: Doggone, another group that's paying no attention to our efforts to control them an confine them to using govt largess to promote our unproven and unproveable stories about "manmade climate change". Even after our massive efforts to fool them into thinking man had anything to do with the climate change we are seeing, despite our complete lack of proof. Why doesn't anybody listen to us?
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Old 07-19-2019, 01:26 PM
 
5,509 posts, read 1,578,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom View Post
Um, that's kind of what NASA is doing with space exploration. You know, looking for somewhere else we can survive? It's sort of important that we check out other places before we go there.
We won't be going anywhere.
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Old 07-19-2019, 01:36 PM
 
Location: USA
18,452 posts, read 9,079,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
to summarize the Luddite perspective; "NASA Bad"
Luddite? How about instead of using the term "bad" how about unnecessary? Obsolete? What has NASA accomplished in the last few decades? Anything of real significance? Private firms now send up satellites, and can also send probes, and people.
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Old 07-19-2019, 02:12 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
1,241 posts, read 476,012 times
Reputation: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by FC76-81 View Post
No the Dem libs are spreading the racism.

Look at what Obama said during his presidency. Wow! He said immigrants must learn English. LOL Imagine the outcry from Trump saying that, and other things that Obama has said.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVuuzTJBE5Y
NASA is more than just taking pictures, we should be celebrating NASA achievements to promote America's greatness, it's the perfect timing.

Look at all we learn from just a picture,
https://www.youtube.com/user/HubbleSiteChannel

Thanks for reminding us how level headed Obama is.
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Old 07-19-2019, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,475 posts, read 3,013,241 times
Reputation: 2052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
TRANSLATION: Doggone, another group that's paying no attention to our efforts to control them an confine them to using govt largess to promote our unproven and unproveable stories about "manmade climate change". Even after our massive efforts to fool them into thinking man had anything to do with the climate change we are seeing, despite our complete lack of proof. Why doesn't anybody listen to us?
I'm not going to argue about climate change on here. Suffice it to say anybody who is confident a large percentage of it is not being caused by humans needs to do some research. Manmade climate change would explain a lot. If it's not caused by people, we've got a lot of confusing questions to answer.
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