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Old 07-23-2019, 10:54 AM
 
Location: SoCal
20,160 posts, read 12,760,547 times
Reputation: 16993

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And he flies first class, that says it all. HYPOCRISY! I’m glad this jerk was not elected in 2016. I’m sure he was populous right back then because the choice for the Dems is either Hilary or Bernie.

 
Old 07-23-2019, 11:09 AM
 
12,772 posts, read 7,977,382 times
Reputation: 4332
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Indeed this is another complicated issue that balances the pros and cons of free market forces with whatever helps those forces from becoming a serious problem for all concerned. Well..., maybe the problem is not so acute for those at the top of the economic food chain, but for those contending with a line forever long at the employment office with people willing to work for less, a minimum wage is not only a good idea but necessary. Hardly different from fair labor and work safety laws. Otherwise, too many millions of hard working people simply fall through the shoddy work place floor boards...
Very different. At the end of the day, those things prevent lawsuits and expenses related to potential injuries and damages.

Labor costs are an input that requires there to be a long term benefit to justify the dollars attached to it. Someone being "given" an extra $5 an hour likely isn't instantly turning around a $5+ ROI.

I understand its not a warm and fuzzy, but if someones labor isn't providing $x, then it doesn't make any sense to pay it, and if you do it will have negative impact elsewhere such as cuts in the available pool of hours for hourly employees (ie people get laid off) or the cost of products to consumers go up, or the business owner now has to take less profit for the risk of running their business.
 
Old 07-23-2019, 11:24 AM
 
29,548 posts, read 9,720,681 times
Reputation: 3471
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
Very different. At the end of the day, those things prevent lawsuits and expenses related to potential injuries and damages.

Labor costs are an input that requires there to be a long term benefit to justify the dollars attached to it. Someone being "given" an extra $5 an hour likely isn't instantly turning around a $5+ ROI.

I understand its not a warm and fuzzy, but if someones labor isn't providing $x, then it doesn't make any sense to pay it, and if you do it will have negative impact elsewhere such as cuts in the available pool of hours for hourly employees (ie people get laid off) or the cost of products to consumers go up, or the business owner now has to take less profit for the risk of running their business.
Of course there are differences, but the similarity I'm referring to is very important. Important and necessary...

Businesses need these sorts of rules, because otherwise those not so concerned about lawsuits and such expenses will cut corners as we all know too many will. If not by desire but out of necessity. Some even despite the laws. This includes a "fair playing field" when it comes to a minimum wage. It is very hard for a business to compete with others that will pay their workers as little as possible and mistreat them every way they can to keep labor costs down. No matter the wages, conditions or safety concerns. Turnover is part of their business plan and accounted for. Lawsuits and all related expenses too. Ever notice how so many lawsuits drag on forever in court? That's part of the strategy too while all the while business operations continue as usual.

Only when these laws are applied fairly and equally to all, can the business people more inclined to pay and treat their people right compete with the bottom feeders. Otherwise, all goes to Hell as the bottom feeders establish a lower and lower least common denominator for all, dragging EVERYONE down with them.

I know this first hand from beginning, operating and owning my own employment agency. Even with the laws requiring all hires be legal to work, for example, my competition was notorious for looking the other way and hiring illegal workers while my company was extremely good at vetting employees for our clients. This made it very hard for me to compete, but at least the law(s) in these regards helped work in my favor, or I would have never got off the ground. Trust me when I tell you the prevailing attitude for too many businesses was to look the other way, just as they will do what they think is necessary to compete in the most cut-throat way possible. Again, even WITH these laws, all too many businesses work around them one way or another anyway.

Someone has a problem with the lower wages, working conditions or that illegals are also working on the plant floor? No problem. There is always a long line of people willing to work for less, at least for awhile anyway. Long enough before the next batch of applicants have unknowingly applied for the same crap jobs...

These sorts of laws, including the minimum wage laws, helps to "level the playing field" is the bottom line, along with many of the other obvious good reasons these laws are put in place. None perfect of course, but the idea is to find that "sweet spot" that minimizes the negatives of free market influences and promotes the positives.

Time for me to sign off from this forum again this morning while meanwhile, though it is hard to believe Sanders has a chance to become our next POTUS, it's even harder not to believe much he is trying to explain to the American people about some important changes that need to happen.
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