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Location: Somewhere between the Americas and Western Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMS14
A couple of billion? Try $38 billion. To contribute to the already bloated U.S. military industrial complex. Which parts of that should we cheer about?
We do not give Israel 38 billion per year. That amount you are citing is a 10 year pledge. You might want to see this explanation:
Again, the money that is given to Israel usually comes right back to US shores because they use it to buy US defense equipment. About three billion in purchases of F-35 aircraft from the USA in 2017 alone.
The "aid" also includes joint US-Israeli missile defense developments (the Iron Dome is tech translatable to US application).
I mean, I don't think we should be giving any aid to any country in that region, but in terms of money well spent, it's not even remotely as problematic as the aid given to various countries in that region that goes to who knows what about.
Exactly. Being anti-Israel is the new liberal thing, and most young people are liberal. But they'll grow up.
Lots of "grownups" are anti-Israel mainly because of their human rights violations. And I believe this is one of the main reasons Millennials are anti-Israel as well. They are a progressive generation that embraces things like diversity and human rights. And this includes young Jews as well. They see Israel for what it is and they don't support it.
Lots of "grownups" are anti-Israel mainly because of their human rights violations. And I believe this is one of the main reasons Millennials are anti-Israel as well. They are a progressive generation that embraces things like diversity and human rights. And this includes young Jews as well. They see Israel for what it is and they don't support it.
Older conservatives only see 1 and 0. Nonin between. No gray area..
Israel is losing support because it's an ethno-religious state as a concept and a dream, and ethnostates as well as religion are losing support because people are more comfortable with intermarriage, intermingling, and share a global culture with a shared language. (The fact that the Arabs and Druze in Israel make it multicultural is a historical remnant, but given their druthers the current leaders of Israel would make it an entirely Jewish state.)
Jewishness is in a bind because it's an identity marked both by ethnicity (a concept on the wane) and by religion (also on the wane). Should Jews exist as a separate people? Should anyone exist as a member of a group defined by ethnicity and religion? Or should we all just blend together? I'm sure there are intelligent and necessary defenses of such identities, but the fact that people are asking such questions rather than taking them for granted goes a long way in explaining this shift in attitude.
Other groups are experiencing similar trajectories. Reform Jews are similar to many mainline Protestants in that both groups have collectively decided that their claimed heritage is in many ways a mistake or a fraud, and these groups are disappearing as fewer people see a good reason to belong to them, since they don't actually believe in what is proclaimed and there are hardly any social benefits to membership.
Other groups such as Orthodox Jews, evangelical Christians, and many (most?) Muslims, have chosen fundamentalism as a rearguard action, but that will only slow down the decline.
And I don't mean to pick on Jews. They are further along in the Enlightenment than most. The Muslims are the farthest behind, and the worst offenders when it comes to all the terrible things that spring from ignorance. I do not questions Israeli Jews' need to defend themselves against such a retrograde force, but I do question Zionism. Why do Jews need to live on the Eastern shore of the Mediterranean? Zionism was motivated partly by the desire for a safe haven for Jews, but are Jews in Israel really safer given their neighbors? As to historical claims to ownership of the land or some sort of divine promise I give no credence.
I’m a millennial and I believe that Israel is a legitimate state that has a right to exist, but as a state it is also extremely problematic, colonialist, and almost genocidally violent towards the Palestinian people.
According to recent data, US Millennial support for Israel has fallen precipitously over the past decade. Recent Economist-YouGov polling data from 2018 show that only 25% of American Millennials (aged 18-25) consider Israel an ally.
The times are changing. Millennial support for the Israeli state is at its the lowest, and trending downwards. And the Millennials are a huge generation. The world is going to look very different once they step into their power. I look forward to it.
I think that's probably a Netanyahu effect? Not Israel itself.
Millennials and Generation Z are clueless and shortsighted. They better figure out reality soon because they aren't going to like what's coming for them when they learn the truth.
Which would be what in reference to this thread / topic?
The world is going to look very different once they step into their power. I look forward to it.
Me too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno
Israel behaves like a relic from the 20th century. Times have changed and nobody is impressed with the manner unto which they conduct themselves. The racism, hyper nationalism, and rampant militarism they exemplify is grotesque and outdated.
Excellent analysis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMS14
More like today's youth, given the widespread accessibility to information these days, is able to see for themselves how Israel went from the underdog to the aggressor.
That would be the long and short of it.
But, look for Israel's response to be the suppression of information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHenriques1147
We do not give Israel 38 billion per year.
That's right...we give them more.
When you add everything up, well, you have to add everything up.
"Everything" isn't strictly foreign aid.
"Everything" includes grant monies, and low interest loans as in loans with interest rates so low as to be negligible and which no other foreign State has ever gotten, plus no interest loans, plus forgiveness on accrued interest, plus loan forgiveness like when Israel buys several $Billion in military hardware, pays six months at low or no interest and then the balance of the loan is forgiven and US taxpayers are stuck with it.
You must also count the indirect aid.
An example of indirect aid is when Congress gives $8 Million in US taxpayer dollars to a private Jewish school in France that does not accept non-Jews as students.
Congress won't give any money to a private religious school in the US, and it won't give money to a private secular school in the US and it only gives money to public schools that dance at the puppet-master's command, but it will give $8 Million to a private Jewish school in France no questions asked.
Anyway, that's what "everything" means.
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