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Old 07-30-2019, 08:05 AM
 
19,492 posts, read 12,340,809 times
Reputation: 10731

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Said every tyrant ever.


Agreed-


Remember when Obama talked about people being "selfish"?


And how much is Obama worth now? Those liberal hypocrites all end up being fabulously rich after their political "service", yet scold anyone else who makes any money for being "selfish".


Why hasn't Obama donated all his money? Is he being "selfish"?


Were those who screwed off when they were younger, had a good time, and ended up in a less than desirable economic situation being "selfish" with their free time when others were working and studying?


Life is full of choices.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:07 AM
 
7,234 posts, read 2,653,400 times
Reputation: 2863
You need to know more people.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,799 posts, read 2,716,834 times
Reputation: 2603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Said every tyrant ever.
Selfish Americans are what are destroying society.

You suffer by the selfishness and greed of your compatriots, remember that. We don't live on an island.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:33 AM
 
7,035 posts, read 2,565,355 times
Reputation: 3846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Selfish Americans are what are destroying society.

You suffer by the selfishness and greed of your compatriots, remember that. We don't live on an island.
What you call selfish is actually another individual serving their own rational self-interests, and the reason you label it with a pejorative is because like all collectivist would-be tyrants, you actually believe that you have a rightful claim/ownership over some or even all of every individual's interests, as they are all members of a collective, and when these individuals do things outside what you feel they should be...well, they're living improperly.

You cannot accuse someone else of being selfish unless they have a thing you want and they will not simply give it to you. In the case of the "selfish because they work in their own interests" the thing they have that you think the should be simply giving you is their labor/time/effort/money. You actually feel that some or all of it - as in their existence itself - belongs to you (even if you are dressing that up by referring to yourself as part of the magical collective), and they are selfishly not adhering to the collective ideals that you honestly believe they should.

There's no other way to think and make a statement like the one I quoted.

I don't suffer because of any individual serving their own rational self-interests and doing so without harming, obligating or otherwise intruding upon the natural individual rights of their fellow human. I suffer from collectives who assume powers/rights that none of the individuals among that collective actually possess, and then backing those powers/rights with the threat/use of force and violence.

Now, we can launch into another endless back and forth, or we can agree that you as dyed-in-the-wool collectivist will never agree with me as a dyed-in-the-wool individualist, nor I with you.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:39 AM
 
Location: So Cal
40,618 posts, read 40,154,838 times
Reputation: 42040
I have a co-worker that makes 6 figures a year and he's an engineer type and a Bernie guy. I don't know if we can make vast sweeping comments about people just based on who they support for president.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Rutherfordton,NC
14,759 posts, read 9,181,137 times
Reputation: 9849
Why aren’t the conservatives bashing their trust fund president? Double standards don’t apply to him.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:52 AM
 
1,846 posts, read 469,650 times
Reputation: 1662
Countries that implement Bernie's policies in a real world situation tend to have better results on virtually all quality of life indicators, and still have rich people and successful companies too (they just don't spoil them).

I notice red states do poorly on quality of life indicators when it comes to virtually everything, even income.

The more successful and dense a place becomes, the more educated and liberal it becomes. That's just a fact.

Conservatives resist change and opportunity where as liberals tend to embrace change and opportunity.

And yes, a lot of young people embrace Bernie's ideas....and you all remember being in your early 20's not entirely knowing what you want to do in your life. That's normal!
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Old 07-30-2019, 09:36 AM
 
66,780 posts, read 30,523,373 times
Reputation: 8727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli34 View Post
Countries that implement Bernie's policies in a real world situation tend to have better results on virtually all quality of life indicators, and still have rich people and successful companies too (they just don't spoil them).
That's because they don't have a FATCA-type law. The rich hide their money/income in foreign tax havens, and evade taxes. For example, the Swedish billionaire founder of IKEA, Ingvar Kamprad, amassed his personal fortune while not paying one thing dime in taxes to Sweden. He merely lived abroad and structured the registration of IKEA in a foreign country.

You see. The US and Eritrea are the only countries in the world that tax their citizens regardless of where their citizens live, worldwide, and regardless of in which country their income was earned.
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Old 07-30-2019, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,799 posts, read 2,716,834 times
Reputation: 2603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
What you call selfish is actually another individual serving their own rational self-interests, and the reason you label it with a pejorative is because like all collectivist would-be tyrants, you actually believe that you have a rightful claim/ownership over some or even all of every individual's interests, as they are all members of a collective, and when these individuals do things outside what you feel they should be...well, they're living improperly.

You cannot accuse someone else of being selfish unless they have a thing you want and they will not simply give it to you. In the case of the "selfish because they work in their own interests" the thing they have that you think the should be simply giving you is their labor/time/effort/money. You actually feel that some or all of it - as in their existence itself - belongs to you (even if you are dressing that up by referring to yourself as part of the magical collective), and they are selfishly not adhering to the collective ideals that you honestly believe they should.

There's no other way to think and make a statement like the one I quoted.

I don't suffer because of any individual serving their own rational self-interests and doing so without harming, obligating or otherwise intruding upon the natural individual rights of their fellow human. I suffer from collectives who assume powers/rights that none of the individuals among that collective actually possess, and then backing those powers/rights with the threat/use of force and violence.

Now, we can launch into another endless back and forth, or we can agree that you as dyed-in-the-wool collectivist will never agree with me as a dyed-in-the-wool individualist, nor I with you.
There is no such thing as 'rational self-interest'. The term rational self interest was made by those who think their is objective truth to life.

As if people are rational and only want what is best for themselves. There is no such thing as 'best for yourself", that term is too immediate as different situations vary and there can be no definitive answer to what is best.

In fact people are not rational all the time, and what does rational mean? Doing what is best? What is best? You see this thought process is to technical and does not apply to human life.


But I agree with you that authoritarians who want to control life and the actions of others because they want to make the world a better place hurt others more than they help.


But a society of people trying to get ahead and get rich quick means everyone suffers. Its neither rational nor healthy. You pursuing your own interests does affect others directly and indirectly, it also affects how society evolves.

Having a country of greedy consumers who only care about themselves mean the freedom and liberty and well being of everyone else suffer in the long term.

Whether it is by excessive consumption, buying capital and making others reliant on your economic power, creating a credit society where people have to live to pay off debt, or destroying social culture to the point people are left to drugs.

Everyone suffers, not just the individual involved. And again, those who want to make the world a better place are often the perpetrators of making things worse.

But individual selfishness is a call for slavery, destruction, and depression.
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