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Old Today, 12:59 PM
 
Location: My House
34,726 posts, read 29,098,409 times
Reputation: 25700

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
As many have pointed out, to truly read and follow the 2nd amendment as written, one must consider the whole thing - not just the last clause. The first four words: "A well regulated militia..." The whole "well-regulated" part seems to get little attention. The sentence is poorly written and ambiguous because the first clause leads to the second without any coordinating conjunction or other part of speech linking the two ideas together in a way that makes sense. The first clause is what we would call a sentence fragment.
It doesn't fit in with their narrative, so they ignore it.

When they get that "well-regulated militia" together, I'll be happy they have so many guns.
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Old Today, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,878 posts, read 4,466,164 times
Reputation: 1416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
The most important effect of letting law-abiding citizens carry (even though most still wouldn't bother), is that potential murderers would know there's probably some people in the crowd who are armed and ready.

And this knowledge would keep some of the nutcases from going in and opening fire in the first place.

That's a better result than our current laws are giving us. Isn't it worth trying?
How much more surveillance over law abiding citizens are we to have, so as to curtail the nutcases?

Churches are members only now. Schools are set up to scan students going in and coming out ... CTV ... every where ... and yet? are we safe?

We are paranoid to go to a night club ... concert. Seems to me the nutcases have won.
 
Old Today, 01:01 PM
 
29,678 posts, read 15,543,544 times
Reputation: 20163
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi View Post
These conversations always get heated, and I understand why. But I would like to ask a question, and I'm not trying to load it with any judgement or entrap you in a game of language. I am sincere.


If you were in a crowd and there was a shooting, like this one in Gilroy, and a person came around a corner holding a gun, how would you react in that moment? I don't understand how you tell whether this person is a "good" guy or a "bad" guy, especially in a situation where people are panicked.



I don't know you. So, if there is a shooting, and I come around a corner & see you holding a gun, how do I know you aren't the shooter? What if I see you and end up running away in the wrong direction? Or is this a case of protecting yourself, not a consideration of others (again, I don't mean that in a judgy way, just trying to understand)?
If you come around the corner with a gun, are you firing it or pointing it at me?
 
Old Today, 01:11 PM
 
Location: USA
18,305 posts, read 9,016,622 times
Reputation: 13753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
The people are the State in the u.s. or do I have that wrong? I have to admit, there are times I do think I do have that wrong, where as that thumb gets pressed down upon my head.
No, the State is not "The People". The Bill of Rights in the U.S. Constitution is to guarantee Natural Rights possessed by "The People". Government does not grant us rights.
 
Old Today, 01:11 PM
 
9,614 posts, read 2,365,260 times
Reputation: 4774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
The National Guard is not the Militia, and not the "PEOPLE", but you've already been told that in many previous threads but choose to stay ignorant, uniformed and anti American,
2nd Amendment: proposed 1789 and in full effect December of 1791

The Militia Acts of 1792 (May 7 and May 8) provided the regulations.

The State Militias were first called upon under these conditions to help suppress the Whiskey Rebellion in 1794.
Congress shall have the power ... to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress
US Constitution, article 1, section 8, clause 15
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
US Constitution, article II, section 2, clause 1
 
Old Today, 01:24 PM
 
Location: San Diego
5,185 posts, read 1,417,517 times
Reputation: 3725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
What you are proposing is how it is today,
I can take my gun and walk into my son's school any time? Or into a post office or other federal building?



Don't quit your day job.
 
Old Today, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Florida
63,294 posts, read 34,485,629 times
Reputation: 10554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
I can take my gun and walk into my son's school any time? Or into a post office or other federal building?



Don't quit your day job.
I was using your own example, but it seems you have already deflected away from it.

PS In Parkland school there was a trained officer with a gun, and the shooter went in anyway.
 
Old Today, 01:33 PM
 
Location: San Diego
5,185 posts, read 1,417,517 times
Reputation: 3725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
PS In Parkland school there was a trained officer with a gun, and the shooter went in anyway.
As I said earlier, some whackos would go ahead and do their shooting anyway, but some would not.

In Los Angeles in 1999, a nutcase got a gun and went driving to several Jewish schools, looking for targets. When he saw the first two schools had armed guards, he did not stop, but drove past them and did not shoot. Only when he found a school that had no armed guards, did he stop, get out, and start shooting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_An...enter_shooting

Some murderous nutcases ARE stopped by knowing a place has armed guards, or other law-abiding citizens who are armed and ready.

If we can stop SOME of them, wouldn't that be a good thing to do? It would certainly produce better results than govt laws have done so far.
 
Old Today, 01:36 PM
 
Location: USA
18,305 posts, read 9,016,622 times
Reputation: 13753
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin View Post
It doesn't fit in with their narrative, so they ignore it.

When they get that "well-regulated militia" together, I'll be happy they have so many guns.
I posted about this already, but THE PEOPLE have the right, not the militia, nor state, nor the government. THE PEOPLE. The militia when needed is made of THE PEOPLE. The people need to own guns privately to be eligible to be in the militia. However, the comma separates the militia from the right of THE PEOPLE.

Regulated DOES NOT MEAN RESTRICTED nor controlled. Regulated means practiced, and well equipped.

It's not about the narrative it is about what it says and means, and the intent of the PEOPLE having the individual right to keep and BEAR arms. The Supreme Court agrees.
 
Old Today, 01:37 PM
 
Location: USA
18,305 posts, read 9,016,622 times
Reputation: 13753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
2nd Amendment: proposed 1789 and in full effect December of 1791

The Militia Acts of 1792 (May 7 and May 8) provided the regulations.

The State Militias were first called upon under these conditions to help suppress the Whiskey Rebellion in 1794.
Congress shall have the power ... to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress
US Constitution, article 1, section 8, clause 15
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
US Constitution, article II, section 2, clause 1

And where does any of that say that THE PEOPLE can not own and bear firearms?
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