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Old 07-29-2019, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,465 posts, read 2,937,588 times
Reputation: 2795

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Quote:
Originally Posted by vacoder View Post
Who forced small towns to shop there? Was there no loyalty of the small town folks to the local hard ware store over Home Depot?
There never is. And even if there was raising production cost from the depletion of local supply chains gave multinational corporations the upper hand.

You see one action somewhere affects everyone else, small towns were not island separate from each other. When one source of labor and material was off-shored, the buyer suffered.

And people wanted cheap goods with higher quantity value since they themselves were being hurt by lower wages and disappearing jobs.

More efficient production always beats out less efficient production, and it doesn't have to do with individual choice.

None of this has to do with individual choice; people don't think long term about affects on community and society when they are in need of immediate gratification.

And living with less is hard for people who are brainwashed by marketing a social influence. People shouldn't be told to fight corporate power, it should be our laws the give capital into the hands of small producers and doesn't allow powerful forces to monopolize the economy or the finance and trading system.
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Old 07-29-2019, 07:27 PM
 
8,095 posts, read 2,855,810 times
Reputation: 3177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
There never is. And even if there was raising production cost from the depletion of local supply chains gave multinational corporations the upper hand.

You see one action somewhere affects everyone else, small towns were not island separate from each other. When one source of labor and material was off-shored, the buyer suffered.

And people wanted cheap goods with higher quantity value since they themselves were being hurt by lower wages and disappearing jobs.

More efficient production always beats out less efficient production, and it doesn't have to do with individual choice.

None of this has to do with individual choice; people don't think long term about affects on community and society when they are in need of immediate gratification.

And living with less is hard for people who are brainwashed by marketing a social influence. People shouldn't be told to fight corporate power, it should be our laws the give capital into the hands of small producers and doesn't allow powerful forces to monopolize the economy or the finance and trading system.
Right. Humans are humans. And if you think they are any different in rural towns vs cities or if you think you know them and they have your back you are a fool.

A big corporation is not necessarily spawned in bug cities. It can be spawned any where. John Deere, a rural icon, for instance is still head quartered in Moline. Of course, it is a monopolizer.
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Old 07-29-2019, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,465 posts, read 2,937,588 times
Reputation: 2795
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
I've spent years living in rural America....and in-between and in the burbs.

What often goes unsaid here (and elsewhere) is that many of these rural areas are/were used and abused and all is not as it seems. It looks pretty from the road until you discover that the mines ruined the water and the fishing.....and that the other side of that ridgeline looks like an Atomic Bomb hit it.

Lots of nice places where you can find incredibly high levels of arsenic and other poisons in the soil from older ag use (Florida as one example).

All of the growth and economic success of the USA came with a cost...both here and in the ROW (rest of world)...

Like most naive Americans I thought escaping to the boonies would be pure living. It was anything but. Some places have dumped millions of gallons of chicken poo in their swamps and waterways, others the same with coal ash....

It's really hard to find this "rural" America that so many talk about....that does not have either terrible weather (cotton country) or the legacy of environmental disaster.
And why did it happen, because the people were incompetent?

Or was it because demand from urban areas created the grounds for exploitation, and small communities wanted the money?

Most of these towns original benefited from being around a natural resource, and benefited more from political support in the 1950s as they represented a higher portion of the tax revenue.

It was urban political and economic power, not self-hatred that caused the ruin of small towns. Wanting them to prosper is a better alternative than a corporate run city where finance can regulate social and economic behavior.
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Old 07-29-2019, 07:29 PM
 
51,000 posts, read 27,316,324 times
Reputation: 16039
Because rural America REALLY sucks. Like, big time.
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Old 07-29-2019, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,465 posts, read 2,937,588 times
Reputation: 2795
Quote:
Originally Posted by vacoder View Post
Right. Humans are humans. And if you think they are any different in rural towns vs cities or if you think you know them and they have your back you are a fool.

A big corporation is not necessarily spawned in bug cities. It can be spawned any where. John Deere, a rural icon, for instance is still head quartered in Moline. Of course, it is a monopolizer.
Yes, and that's why political means should be used to stop the collectivization of wealth and power.

Peasants in western Russia or villages in the Congo did not desire excessive central power or control of their economy.

No one should have that power.
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Old 07-29-2019, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,465 posts, read 2,937,588 times
Reputation: 2795
Quote:
Originally Posted by vacoder View Post
Authoritarian? Who forced the good folks of small town america to abandon the local hardware store for lower prices at Home Depot? Seriously. You talk about fools in the city. Meanwhile neighbors screwed neighbors in rural america.
Its because of greed and market propaganda.

I never said small town folk were better people, I said people who choose a life of excess and power are fools, no matter where they come from.

It does not mean these forces shouldn't be curtailed. If capital is not accumulated, most of these forces would never be demanded or bought into.
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Old 07-29-2019, 07:33 PM
 
8,095 posts, read 2,855,810 times
Reputation: 3177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Yes, and that's why political means should be used to stop the collectivization of wealth and power.

Peasants in western Russia or villages in the Congo did not desire excessive central power or control of their economy.

No one should have that power.
So you advocate authoritarian means to stop what you call authoritarian rule?
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Old 07-29-2019, 07:42 PM
 
3,449 posts, read 1,968,047 times
Reputation: 2518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
As shown here, undocumented immigrants make up more than half the hired labor on farms. Why are the farmers hiring so many illegal immigrants and why hasn't Trump sent ICE to raid the farms? Speaking of taking from government, farmers are getting $50 BILLION of taxpayer money.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/illegal...workers-taxes/

Even Republican Congressman Devin Nunez' family farm depends on illegal immigrants. He doesn't talk about that.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...wa-california/
I don't speak for Trump. Why don't you just ask him? As far as the farmers getting $50 BILLION of taxpayer money. Why don't you just complain to congress, they appropriate the money. Oh that's right the Democrat's now control congress.

If it were up to me there wouldn't be a God damn thing for anyone who is in this country illegally. No medical care, no food, no housing, no jobs, no education, NOTHING! They may as well be on the surface of the moon.

As far as farm labor goes there are H-2A guest worker programs that address that. Any farmer that hires an illegal invader outside of that should be arrested as should anyone else that knowingly hires an illegal invader.

As far as Nunez goes that's only an allegation that hasn't been proven. Remember innocent until proven guilty? A concept that is foreign to Democrats. If it's proved in a court of law that Nunez hired illegal invaders he should be arrested, charged and removed from congress. Until then he's INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

How convenient that you don't mention the same allegations against Pelosi?

Quote:
Video: Report: Pelosi hired illegal immigrants for Napa ...
https://hotair.com/archives/ian/2006...lley-vineyard/
Nor has Pelosi been a fan of employer sanctions against the hiring of illegal aliens. In 2003, she accused immigration officers of conducting “terrorizing raids” on Wal-Mart stores that led to the arrest of more than 300 illegal aliens.

Pelosi and husband are said to be worth 55 million. They own a lot of grape producing land. It has been reported that they do not use any union workers to work these fields and may be using illegal alien pickers. https://www.alipac.us/f9/nancy-pelos...s-43049-print/
Quote:
The story alleges the Nunes' family farm uses undocumented labor, citing multiple unnamed sources who live in Sibley, including one who claimed to be undocumented and to have worked for the Nunes' operation, NuStar Farms.---https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2018/10/01/devin-nunes-immigration-undocumented-illegal-immigrants-nustar-farms-sibley-iowa-california-esquire/1485010002/
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Old 07-29-2019, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
10,163 posts, read 7,610,520 times
Reputation: 8769
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawac34618 View Post
With all the talk about how terrible America's cities are lately and how rural America is a shining example of the 'real America', why is rural America in such decline? Why is there so much poverty in the Ozarks and Appalachia? Why does everyone who has the means to want to move to the big city for employment and quality of life? In addition, very few cities are predominantly conservative.

https://www.citylab.com/perspective/...ecline/588883/
you're the guy that's the king of creating an argument to fit his narrative out of thin air - right?
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Old 07-29-2019, 07:51 PM
 
8,095 posts, read 2,855,810 times
Reputation: 3177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex New Yorker View Post
I don't speak for Trump. Why don't you just ask him? As far as the farmers getting $50 BILLION of taxpayer money. Why don't you just complain to congress, they appropriate the money. Oh that's right the Democrat's now control congress.

If it were up to me there wouldn't be a God damn thing for anyone who is in this country illegally. No medical care, no food, no housing, no jobs, no education, NOTHING! They may as well be on the surface of the moon.

As far as farm labor goes there are H-2A guest worker programs that address that. Any farmer that hires an illegal invader outside of that should be arrested as should anyone else that knowingly hires an illegal invader.

As far as Nunez goes that's only an allegation that hasn't been proven. Remember innocent until proven guilty? A concept that is foreign to Democrats. If it's proved in a court of law that Nunez hired illegal invaders he should be arrested, charged and removed from congress. Until then he's INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

How convenient that you don't mention the same allegations against Pelosi?
The aid package is not up to congress. Remember, Trump claims tariffs are a national security issue. The aid package comes from USDA who is empowered to borrow money. This is all on Trump.
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