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Old 07-30-2019, 02:01 PM
 
Location: The middle of nowhere
9,565 posts, read 4,404,025 times
Reputation: 8113

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
Here in MI, and surrounding states I find most of the small towns still have small diners or really great quant little restaurants, but these states are more touristy than OK or KS. The further west I've traveled , back to the home state of KS I find your picture spot on. In my old home town of 13k people I found only one little diner, the rest was fast food garbage. And a couple of great BBQ places. Not sure why this is.
Colorado also has a lot of quaint towns that haven't been ruined by big box stores and fast food chains, but once again, it's a touristy state. Those towns also aren't near as impoverished as the typical Southern town dominated by fast food is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
We have the same problem in NH, pushing all of our students into higher education only results in them leaving our rural state behind for cities where there are jobs for their degrees.
This is a big problem here in Oklahoma. OU and OSU basically supply the Dallas/Ft Worth metroplex with skilled workers. I can understand the mindset that it isn't worth more funding for higher education when it's simply educating people to leave the state. On the flipside, lack of investment in higher education keeps corporations relocating out of California from even considering Oklahoma and also makes it more difficult for a real startup culture to get going in places like OKC and Tulsa. Their a pretty significant brain drain from OKC/Tulsa down to DFW.
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Old 07-30-2019, 02:11 PM
 
49,492 posts, read 46,314,812 times
Reputation: 15683
Quote:
This is a big problem here in Oklahoma. OU and OSU basically supply the Dallas/Ft Worth metroplex with skilled workers. I can understand the mindset that it isn't worth more funding for higher education when it's simply educating people to leave the state. On the flipside, lack of investment in higher education keeps corporations relocating out of California from even considering Oklahoma and also makes it more difficult for a real startup culture to get going in places like OKC and Tulsa. Their a pretty significant brain drain from OKC/Tulsa down to DFW.
One thing I think about is this. While Oklahoma definitely has alot of rural areas, Tulsa and Oklahoma City are cities. And not small ones either. I wonder why more college graduates don't go to OKC or Tulsa. Besides gang problems in Tulsa, I wonder what's going on in both cities.
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Old 07-30-2019, 02:17 PM
 
Location: The middle of nowhere
9,565 posts, read 4,404,025 times
Reputation: 8113
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
One thing I think about is this. While Oklahoma definitely has alot of rural areas, Tulsa and Oklahoma City are cities. And not small ones either. I wonder why more college graduates don't go to OKC or Tulsa. Besides gang problems in Tulsa, I wonder what's going on in both cities.
Some do, but in general wages are much higher, opportunities are much more numerous, and quality of life is much better in DFW than in either OKC or Tulsa. Oklahoma is cheaper and less crowded but that's really all it has going for it. And by national standards, I'd consider OKC and Tulsa to be small metro areas. Oklahoma appeals primarily to people who want economic opportunity but don't want to be in a major city and also people who are primarily concerned with bottom dollar.
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Old 07-30-2019, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,570 posts, read 3,221,670 times
Reputation: 10140
Everyone that I grew up with left the city as soon as possible, including me.
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Old 07-30-2019, 02:30 PM
 
15,694 posts, read 18,047,444 times
Reputation: 13745
Most Americans don't live in rural areas OR urban areas. Only 14% of Americans live in rural areas. 31% live in urban areas. 55% live in suburban areas.

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018...l-communities/
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:52 PM
 
17,281 posts, read 4,575,922 times
Reputation: 11938
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
As a fiscal conservative, I don't see the need for every single young person in America to get an advanced degree, one that costs so much money to attain. Our society also needs to have our young people consider work in the skilled trades. In fact, we are facing a shortage in skilled trade workers.

I don't like how you and other liberals are implying that without a masters or a PhD, a person is "uneducated".
Well, perhaps you "don't like" that only 6% of scientists ID as Republican. Or you may not like that, at his point, the value of the US Economy has switched to brains/data/innovation/life-sciences from oil/coal/resources.

But there are certain realities that a "conservative" should not just throw aside as "something liberals say".

Firstly, little snippets.....there are folks who worked as plumbers their entire lives who did so specifically so their children would not have to shovel poo for their vocation. I learned framing and carpentry and I remember a smart friend what worked with me who looked at the 50 yo carpenters next to us and exclaimed "I'm not going to be doing that when I'm older". At the time I didn't understand...now I do.

You can make a lot of money roofing. It's one of the most dangerous jobs going and anyone who can't take the heat, cold, climbing and other factors is going to have a VERY short career. Many plumbers, these days, are installing dishwashers at the exact (low) rate that Lowes and Home Depot tell them too. Amazon is starting to do the same. Capitalism will grind up the trades just as it ground up the main streets and retailers.

On the "educated" front, I already mentioned that there are exceptions. However, there is direct correlation between measured "intelligence" (IQ, SAT, etc.) and achievement of what we call success. NO, it is not a perfect 1:1 correlation, but it is the rule. Not even close. Guys like me, who can do just about anything, can't even get a job at the Apple Store (even tho I've used computers since 1980, programmed, owned retail shops, succeeded online, etc.). They want someone with a degree.....even for retail!

Back when (even 1980's) it was common for folks without degrees (seat of the pants) to rise up within many of these tech firms based on merit. Those days are over. Now you need the PHD just to get in the door...THEN, maybe your merit will shine though.

Those are the truths of the matter...AND, if we are to get back to the OP, it's not like folks in rural areas are going to make it big by being just another plumber! Most everyone in rural areas knows how to DIY, making the skills even less valuable. If they want the big bucks they need to live near or in Boston (or the like) where the cost of living is going to eat big time into the higher wages they receive.

I agree with the basic premise that most lower IQ people should not pursue graduate education (with exceptions depending on the major). It's a rarified place for people who are "well above average". Trying to compete with people who have 130-150 IQ's is virtually impossible for one with 100. Yes, there are exceptions.

Read it
https://www.brookings.edu/research/e...her-education/

"Fact 1: The median lifetime earnings for individuals with bachelor's degrees are twice that of those with high school diplomas."

As far as over-borrowing, consider fact 8
"Fact 8: The vast majority of defaulters have less than $10,000 in student loan debt."
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Old 07-30-2019, 04:14 PM
Status: ""...and a child shall lead them"" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,183 posts, read 2,205,480 times
Reputation: 3904
Quote:
Originally Posted by cttransplant85 View Post
Blue states have a huge domestic migration problem. If it weren’t for international migration nearly all of them would have a stagnant or declining population. People are moving to suburbs and growing cities in the south and the west, mostly in low tax purple and red states. Domestic migration trends are not in your favor at all. https://townhall.com/columnists/rach...tates-n2447683

https://www.census.gov/library/stori...ion-flows.html
Just remember that the west coast (including California!) and Colorado used to be solidly Republican. So did Virginia and Florida. Even North Carolina and Arizona are both now "purple leaning red",
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Old 07-30-2019, 06:02 PM
 
33,416 posts, read 17,114,671 times
Reputation: 18225
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
Only if you consider traditional college to be the only viable education option for people.
Now I'm baffled. What are the non-college education alternatives available in rural areas? The trade schools are still in the cities.
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Old 07-30-2019, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Places you dream of
20,767 posts, read 12,470,972 times
Reputation: 9012
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
As a fiscal conservative, I don't see the need for every single young person in America to get an advanced degree, one that costs so much money to attain. Our society also needs to have our young people consider work in the skilled trades. In fact, we are facing a shortage in skilled trade workers.

We have the same problem in NH, pushing all of our students into higher education only results in them leaving our rural state behind for cities where there are jobs for their degrees.

I don't like how you and other liberals are implying that without a masters or a PhD, a person is "uneducated".

Also, immigrants who lack any sort of formal education AND who can't speak or write English, aren't suitable candidates for American skilled trade jobs. There's a big divide between being a day worker picked up at a Home Depot parking lot or landscaper and... a construction worker, sheet metal worker, or licensed electrician or plumber who has put in their time as an apprentice, journeyman and finally being a master at their craft and bonded.

BTW would it be so terrible if Alaska loses human population? Don't you have issues with air pollution in the winter time from all the wood burning stove? And it's not very "green" when it's so cold outside and your automobiles need engine heaters. Leave Alaska to those who are willing to rough it in the wild. living in a small cabin
I will beg to differ in the area of who is a candidate to do what. Many have learned or gone to school in their country before the come here - 2 natural ability. During summer our boys were encouraged to get summer jobs . It was good to see how they handled different things. One boy just natural mechanic - now I know why he tore all his trucks apart as a kid - kid 2 natural salesman - sell you the bridge - last that boy could open iPhones and change the inners and whatnot- cannibalizes old computers and sold them. His friend could cut and trim drywall like nobody’s business. These all less than 16/17 yrs old - I also met a guy from Dom Rep - he taught my son electrical stuff - and one day went to visit his family and he turned a open patio to a whole new room natural carpenter. Met another fella - took me on board a $25 million boat in ft laud. He had the keys as he was redoing the entire inside cabins. Wow I have yet to figure how he makes planks of wood bend, natural craftsman - no ingles. School no - learn from others yes - but no formal education. I think it’s true God gives everyone a skill to eat .
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Old 07-30-2019, 06:22 PM
 
Location: In your head, rent free
14,924 posts, read 7,983,796 times
Reputation: 7669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Now I'm baffled. What are the non-college education alternatives available in rural areas? The trade schools are still in the cities.
They are?
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