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Old Yesterday, 02:11 PM
 
9,094 posts, read 2,813,297 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Liberals fighting for "liberty and equality"?


That is a laugh. Liberals oppose the US Constitution, which guarantees our personal liberties, and support authoritarian bans and edicts from a strong central government at the EXPENSE of the individual.


If everyone was "equal", living in a mud hut, burning dung for fuel, and living on a handful of rice every day and EQUAL, then a liberal would be happy. Of course, there would "enlightened" feudal lords living like kings, but that is beside the point.


Keep in mind that Marx DID NOT oppose systems of monarchy, in which oligarchs controlled the balance of serfs through royal decree. When one examines communism/socialism, there is an element of nodding to a central authoritarian figure, which is the exact opposite of a system that respects and promotes individual liberty.


Liberalism is the greatest enemy of individual liberty today.
I don't know any liberals, myself included, who oppose the Constitution. However, I do know of a certain person residing in the WH who is running roughshod over the Constitution on a daily basis. The sad and frightening thing is, it's working and nobody cares.
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Old Yesterday, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,636 posts, read 15,537,661 times
Reputation: 11490
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadSpeak View Post
Lol the party against science is trying to use science to bash the left? And yes psychology is considered a science
Another example of misrepresentation.
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Old Yesterday, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,636 posts, read 15,537,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Your own article blamed the education system.
They are part of the problem, but are not representative of one's entire sphere of influence.
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Old Yesterday, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Austin TX
6,371 posts, read 3,545,192 times
Reputation: 8341
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Another example of misrepresentation.
I too laugh at this. My husband is a CPU engineer at one of the top chip companies. His fellow high-level engineers are overwhelmingly conservative-minded. Imagine that. PhD-level STEM grads who hold conservative values. They exist!
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Old Yesterday, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,105 posts, read 2,142,589 times
Reputation: 3847
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
This is a good read about liberals and the way they think... if you get into this stuff. It's a little long, but it highlights why progressives are angry and hostile - and it also illustrates why conservatives can actually talk through issues.

From March 2018... The Psychology of Progressive Hostility

In his remarkable book The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion, Haidt recalls a telling experiment. He and his colleagues Brian Nosek and Jesse Graham sought to discover how well conservative and what Haidt terms ‘liberal’ (ie: progressive) students understood one another by having them answer moral questions as they thought their political opponents would answer them. “The results were clear and consistent,” remarks Haidt. “In all analyses, conservatives were more accurate than liberals.” Asked to think the way a liberal thinks, conservatives answered moral questions just as the liberal would answer them, but liberal students were unable to do the reverse. Rather, they seemed to put moral ideas into the mouths of conservatives that they don’t hold. To put it bluntly, Haidt and his colleagues found that progressives don’t understand conservatives the way conservatives understand progressives. This he calls the ‘conservative advantage,’ and it goes a long way in explaining the different ways each side deals with opinions unlike their own. People get angry at what they don’t understand, and an all-progressive education ensures that they don’t understand.

Haidt’s research echoes arguments made by Thomas Sowell in A Conflict of Visions and Steven Pinker in The Blank Slate. Both Sowell and Pinker contend that conservatives see an unfortunate world of moral trade-offs in which every moral judgment comes with costs that must be properly balanced. Progressives, on the other hand, seem to be blind to, or in denial about, these trade-offs, whether economic and social; theirs is a utopian or unconstrained vision, in which every moral grievance must be immediately extinguished until we have perfected society. This is why conservatives don’t tend to express the same emotional hostility as the Left; a deeper grasp of the world’s complexity has the effect of encouraging intellectual humility. The conservative hears the progressive’s latest demands and says, “I can see how you might come to that conclusion, but I think you’ve overlooked the following…” In contrast, the progressive hears the conservative and thinks, “I have no idea why you would believe that. You’re probably a racist.”



Based on the underlined, it seems to be an issue of education and understanding, and that turns into anger when one's utopia is threatened.

I also think people use anger as a billyclub to gain leverage.
Either Haidt or the article's author misunderstands the progressive position here. We fully realize there are tradeoffs (e.g. making a profit for shareholders vs duties to not engage in unethical or exploitative business practices). Even more so is it the right to individual autonomy vs preventing the negative effects inevitably resulting from those acts. Conservatives to the latter as well, just that they prioritize different things from progressives. The issues of abortion and a having a European-style health care system are a dramatic example of this.

Also, progressives are less prone to confuse Utopia being impossible with an excuse to handwave away still-remaining social evils or outmoded policies (i.e. no falling back on "it's just human nature" and "natural arguments in general"). They're also less prone to see "human nature" itself in terms of some animalistic Social Darwininan "law of the jungle" terms, but rather in terms of humans transcending the other animals to a conderable albeit imperfect degree (i.e. humans have the capacity, however incompletely, to scrutinize our own nature - asking "Does this attitude or sentiment really make sense in a modern society, or is it just leftover evolutionary baggage we have to keep in check?").

There's other things, but I have hit the highlights.
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Old Yesterday, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,636 posts, read 15,537,661 times
Reputation: 11490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazee Cat Lady View Post
Yes, Democrats are so full of Progressive hostility that they want you to have the right to have health care and a fair wage.


Those Angry @#$@$~!
Nothing wrong with that. Now can you state your case without calling anyone a name or slandering/libeling a person's character... take a reasoned response that doesn't agree, and continue to be civil?
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Old Yesterday, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,636 posts, read 15,537,661 times
Reputation: 11490
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX Wahine View Post
I’m fascinated by the psychology on this topic. It’s been my own personal experience that conservatives are more likely to maintain a conversation on politics without resorting to personal attacks. Conservatives seem more “cold” and unfeeling to human suffering, likely because conservatives have a very strong opinion of self-reliance and taking care of one’s own problems. They don’t pity those who won’t help themselves and aren’t afraid to state it. Liberals are far more emotional groupthink people who believe more in a collective helping each other out, with the weakest members receiving more help than others. They feel it’s not only their right but their responsibility to torque on anyone who disagrees.

It’s this huge difference in overall personalities that plot the course of our personal politics. We disagree because we disagree. It has always been this way and it will remain this way. What has changed is the way we interact with one another. We’ve lost our manners and treat each other terribly based on our politics and not our personality. It’s a disastrous way for humans to live together.
I think we are on the same wavelength.

I have no problem with disagreement - but why response in anger or with name-calling instead of civil behavior? I guess I am trying to make sense of it - then I can deal with it. Maybe they just learn that behavior from watching others do the same. Doesn't seem to be beneficial to solving problems.
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Old Yesterday, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,636 posts, read 15,537,661 times
Reputation: 11490
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX Wahine View Post
I too laugh at this. My husband is a CPU engineer at one of the top chip companies. His fellow high-level engineers are overwhelmingly conservative-minded. Imagine that. PhD-level STEM grads who hold conservative values. They exist!
Mechanical Engineering on my end. I have no problems with good science.

Chip company?... based on your past handle - you must be one of those Silicon Valley transplants to Texas.
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Old Yesterday, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Austin TX
6,371 posts, read 3,545,192 times
Reputation: 8341
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Mechanical Engineering on my end. I have no problems with good science.

Chip company?... based on your past handle - you must be one of those Silicon Valley transplants to Texas.
Haha. Guilty. My husband is a native Austinite who did a tour of duty in Silicon Valley and brought me back home with him. Been here ever since.

PS: you nailed it - GOOD science.
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Old Yesterday, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Austin TX
6,371 posts, read 3,545,192 times
Reputation: 8341
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
I think we are on the same wavelength.

I have no problem with disagreement - but why response in anger or with name-calling instead of civil behavior? I guess I am trying to make sense of it - then I can deal with it. Maybe they just learn that behavior from watching others do the same. Doesn't seem to be beneficial to solving problems.
It’s the internet. It has reconditioned human beings to react and speak to others in a way we never would have dreamed of doing “in person”. Unfortunately, that in turn has emboldened the angriest of souls to now confront people “in person” as if they were on the internet. The goal post toward complete breakdown of society keeps getting moved closer and closer to that goal.
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