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Old Yesterday, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,618 posts, read 15,530,546 times
Reputation: 11483

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This is a good read about liberals and the way they think... if you get into this stuff. It's a little long, but it highlights why progressives are angry and hostile - and it also illustrates why conservatives can actually talk through issues.

From March 2018... The Psychology of Progressive Hostility

In his remarkable book The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion, Haidt recalls a telling experiment. He and his colleagues Brian Nosek and Jesse Graham sought to discover how well conservative and what Haidt terms ‘liberal’ (ie: progressive) students understood one another by having them answer moral questions as they thought their political opponents would answer them. “The results were clear and consistent,” remarks Haidt. “In all analyses, conservatives were more accurate than liberals.” Asked to think the way a liberal thinks, conservatives answered moral questions just as the liberal would answer them, but liberal students were unable to do the reverse. Rather, they seemed to put moral ideas into the mouths of conservatives that they don’t hold. To put it bluntly, Haidt and his colleagues found that progressives don’t understand conservatives the way conservatives understand progressives. This he calls the ‘conservative advantage,’ and it goes a long way in explaining the different ways each side deals with opinions unlike their own. People get angry at what they don’t understand, and an all-progressive education ensures that they don’t understand.

Haidt’s research echoes arguments made by Thomas Sowell in A Conflict of Visions and Steven Pinker in The Blank Slate. Both Sowell and Pinker contend that conservatives see an unfortunate world of moral trade-offs in which every moral judgment comes with costs that must be properly balanced. Progressives, on the other hand, seem to be blind to, or in denial about, these trade-offs, whether economic and social; theirs is a utopian or unconstrained vision, in which every moral grievance must be immediately extinguished until we have perfected society. This is why conservatives don’t tend to express the same emotional hostility as the Left; a deeper grasp of the world’s complexity has the effect of encouraging intellectual humility. The conservative hears the progressive’s latest demands and says, “I can see how you might come to that conclusion, but I think you’ve overlooked the following…” In contrast, the progressive hears the conservative and thinks, “I have no idea why you would believe that. You’re probably a racist.”


Based on the underlined, it seems to be an issue of education and understanding, and that turns into anger when one's utopia is threatened.

I also think people use anger as a billyclub to gain leverage.
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Old Yesterday, 10:14 PM
 
27,231 posts, read 9,230,530 times
Reputation: 9496
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
This is a good read about liberals and the way they think... if you get into this stuff. It's a little long, but it highlights why progressives are angry and hostile - and it also illustrates why conservatives can actually talk through issues.

From March 2018... The Psychology of Progressive Hostility

In his remarkable book The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion, Haidt recalls a telling experiment. He and his colleagues Brian Nosek and Jesse Graham sought to discover how well conservative and what Haidt terms ‘liberal’ (ie: progressive) students understood one another by having them answer moral questions as they thought their political opponents would answer them. “The results were clear and consistent,” remarks Haidt. “In all analyses, conservatives were more accurate than liberals.” Asked to think the way a liberal thinks, conservatives answered moral questions just as the liberal would answer them, but liberal students were unable to do the reverse. Rather, they seemed to put moral ideas into the mouths of conservatives that they don’t hold. To put it bluntly, Haidt and his colleagues found that progressives don’t understand conservatives the way conservatives understand progressives. This he calls the ‘conservative advantage,’ and it goes a long way in explaining the different ways each side deals with opinions unlike their own. People get angry at what they don’t understand, and an all-progressive education ensures that they don’t understand.

Haidt’s research echoes arguments made by Thomas Sowell in A Conflict of Visions and Steven Pinker in The Blank Slate. Both Sowell and Pinker contend that conservatives see an unfortunate world of moral trade-offs in which every moral judgment comes with costs that must be properly balanced. Progressives, on the other hand, seem to be blind to, or in denial about, these trade-offs, whether economic and social; theirs is a utopian or unconstrained vision, in which every moral grievance must be immediately extinguished until we have perfected society. This is why conservatives don’t tend to express the same emotional hostility as the Left; a deeper grasp of the world’s complexity has the effect of encouraging intellectual humility. The conservative hears the progressive’s latest demands and says, “I can see how you might come to that conclusion, but I think you’ve overlooked the following…” In contrast, the progressive hears the conservative and thinks, “I have no idea why you would believe that. You’re probably a racist.”


Based on the underlined, it seems to be an issue of education and understanding, and that turns into anger when one's utopia is threatened.
The underlined nailed it !!! Sad they think of themselves as highly educated !!!

Quote:
I also think people use anger as a billyclub to gain leverage.
Liberals are just as apt to use the billyclub on themselves to claim they are victims !!!

Last edited by Oldhag1; Today at 04:33 AM.. Reason: Fixed formatting
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Old Yesterday, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,618 posts, read 15,530,546 times
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The part about conservatives and liberals and how they see each others viewpoints is important

Conservatives nailed the liberals position. On the other hand, liberals could not grasp the conservative position and ascribed ideas to them that did not truly apply.

We see that here on the forum everyday, but for educators to study this and come to the same conclusion... there's something there that I haven't grasped yet. Or, it could be as simple as they don't know, and don't care - they just want their way.
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Old Yesterday, 11:56 PM
 
1,761 posts, read 601,667 times
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Conservatives are also consistently happier than progressives. I think that's due to self-knowledge for both parties.

The conservative knows he or she is favored in life, whether through genetics or environment. Success is attainable and maybe even probable. If your skids are greased, why wouldn't you be satisfied with the status quo?

The progressive knows the odds are against them achieving what they want. This could be because, as the article alludes, their expectations are utopian and impossible to meet. Or it could be because he or she is disfavored in life, whether through genetics or environment. Success is harder to achieve and unlikely to happen.

The following is all anecdotal, but conservatives are usually from the dominant culture, are more physically attractive, and come from intact families, all greatly increasing the chances of life success. Intelligence is a mixed bag, but in the case of progressives intelligence often seems to merely increase awareness of their situation without increasing the ability to change that situation.
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Old Today, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
15,093 posts, read 13,393,084 times
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I'm a simpleton. Just live and let live.
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Old Today, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
4,431 posts, read 1,374,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
This is a good read about liberals and the way they think.

No, it's intellectual laziness. There is no one way all liberals everywhere think. I know it's easier to go "libz r the b0rg lol" and call it a day, but that isn't realistic, considering liberals are individuals with individual thoughts and individual beliefs.
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Old Today, 12:09 AM
 
1,761 posts, read 601,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekigurl View Post
No, it's intellectual laziness. There is no one way all liberals everywhere think. I know it's easier to go "libz r the b0rg lol" and call it a day, but that isn't realistic, considering liberals are individuals with individual thoughts and individual beliefs.
Jonathan Haidt is a respected psychologist. If you have a problem with his methodology you should spell it out. Your reply that labeling a group with traits can never be done since an individual might not fall under the group label, is a high school caliber response. Everyone knows that group labels are not deterministic but probabilistic. In other words, the label does not necessarily apply but probably does. Which is still a useful conclusion to come to.
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Old Today, 03:45 AM
 
3,100 posts, read 1,581,660 times
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There are differences between liberals and conservatives (obviously). But the author drew unsupported conclusions about himself. One conclusion is that he is in the "middle", a centrist, because he has conservative and liberal friends. A centrist would not have asked a question such as the one below to his friends.
Quote:
I asked sincerely where they were getting what sounded like inflated poverty statistics.
It is not a sincere question, which is another poor conclusion. It is a question that made a point because of the word "inflated." By using this word, you are basically accusing your friend of lying in order to try to win a debate. I picture myself more Republican than Democrat because of where I grew up and my rule is simple, you don't make friends with liars or stay friends with them. I have found liars on both sides of the aisle.
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Old Today, 05:13 AM
 
6,472 posts, read 3,383,021 times
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All you have to do is read enough of the threads in this forum to grasp the fact that democrats are not as in touch with the real world of facts and ideas as conservatives are. It is because the majority of our media, education, entertainment, culture, and social media is controlled by democrats and their ideology.
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Old Today, 05:18 AM
 
27,231 posts, read 9,230,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
I'm a simpleton. Just live and let live.
But....but...but I'm from the government and I want to help !!! I know, its old but it still applies !!!

I have all this tax money you were so generous to provide and I need to interfere in your life to make it better !!! Its my job !!!
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