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Old Yesterday, 05:35 PM
 
855 posts, read 135,750 times
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Straw man question.

'Free' in this context means 'Free at the point of use', of course it still has to be paid for but the argument is for funding that comes from taxes rather than fees for users.
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Old Yesterday, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
21,074 posts, read 10,170,283 times
Reputation: 20398
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post

No...Iím not just talking about corporate handouts.

Right wingers are lining up for all the same welfare that everyone else is lining up for. Itís one reason why Trump hasnít been able to repeal Obamacare. Too many of his constituents depend on it. Welfare and food stamps too.

If weíre talking about freebies, Iíve got the right to bring up all the freebies. Including the ones you claim I shouldnít be bringing up.
I'm saying the notion of free healthcare, free childcare, free college, writing off student loans, etc., is being pushed by politicians on the left. That doesn't mean people on the right aren't cashing in - they are. But I do think people in the middle class in both parties who have been struggling aren't for these things. They're the ones who end up getting screwed.

We can't afford all these freebies. If you can't afford to go to college, work and take out student loans and then pay those off. If you can't afford children or childcare, don't have them.

A hundred years ago when I was a kid people didn't have credit cards so they couldn't buy anything - and I mean anything - until they had the cash to pay for it. We live in a world where people think they just need to tap a little machine with a piece of plastic that has a microchip, and worry about how to pay for it later. That's become the mindset for a whole lot of people with regard to the lifestyle they want to maintain - and those paying the price are the rest of us working stiffs in the shrinking middle class.
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Old Yesterday, 06:03 PM
 
1,496 posts, read 309,605 times
Reputation: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
I'm saying the notion of free healthcare, free childcare, free college, writing off student loans, etc., is being pushed by politicians on the left. That doesn't mean people on the right aren't cashing in - they are. But I do think people in the middle class in both parties who have been struggling aren't for these things. They're the ones who end up getting screwed.

We can't afford all these freebies. If you can't afford to go to college, work and take out student loans and then pay those off. If you can't afford children or childcare, don't have them.

A hundred years ago when I was a kid people didn't have credit cards so they couldn't buy anything - and I mean anything - until they had the cash to pay for it. We live in a world where people think they just need to tap a little machine with a piece of plastic that has a microchip, and worry about how to pay for it later. That's become the mindset for a whole lot of people with regard to the lifestyle they want to maintain - and those paying the price are the rest of us working stiffs in the shrinking middle class.
What a ridiculous argument.

You will never change human nature to reproduce even if people have to adjust to lower standards of living in order to have children. Telling poor people "don't have children" is laughable.

Banks that give credit to millions of so people can buy things they can't afford are as responsible for the status quo.
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Old Yesterday, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
21,074 posts, read 10,170,283 times
Reputation: 20398
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo View Post
What a ridiculous argument.

You will never change human nature to reproduce even if people have to adjust to lower standards of living in order to have children. Telling poor people "don't have children" is laughable.

Banks that give credit to millions of so people can buy things they can't afford are as responsible for the status quo.
Actually, what is ridiculous, is the notion that people can breed and expect other folks to pay for the expenses they might incur.

It's called personal responsibility. I'm not surprised you find that notion ridiculous.
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Old Yesterday, 06:21 PM
 
1,496 posts, read 309,605 times
Reputation: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
Actually, what is ridiculous, is the notion that people can breed and expect other folks to pay for the expenses they might incur.

It's called personal responsibility. I'm not surprised you find that notion ridiculous.
Twisting the argument to fit your bias. I just read that 53% of all Americans benefit from WIC, and many government assistance programs like TANF are needed because working people can't afford an American lifestyle just with their wages. It is not that people are lazy, it is that the money keeps flowing a certain direction and the government keeps putting covering the problem with debt.
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Old Yesterday, 06:22 PM
 
6,381 posts, read 6,707,338 times
Reputation: 5968
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Why is the idea of "free" pursued by liberals?

Free education
Free child care
Free health care
Free public transportation
Free access to the country from outsiders
Free family leave where no salary is lost


Why free?

Do they want to work for free? Heck no. They are constantly striving for higher minimum wages - yet they want everything for free. You put these two ideas together of wanting free stuff along with paying employees high wages and it absolutely cannot coexist.

I am not saying everything should be expensive, but I want people to profit from their work and support themselves with the profit they have earned. That should be the ultimate goal for every adult.

What is it that says something for nothing is the way society should work? Why is it attractive?
In these cases free = someone else pays.
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Old Yesterday, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
21,074 posts, read 10,170,283 times
Reputation: 20398
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo View Post
Twisting the argument to fit your bias. I just read that 53% of all Americans benefit from WIC, and many government assistance programs like TANF are needed because working people can't afford an American lifestyle just with their wages. It is not that people are lazy, it is that the money keeps flowing a certain direction and the government keeps putting covering the problem with debt.
You're only confirming what I previously posted. The middle class has been squeezed to the point where some of them are now in the lower class and on assistance. Many of the formerly upper middle class are now on the cusp of the lower middle class. Too poor to save for a future but not so poor that they qualify for any assistance.

And people like you think these hard working stiffs should suffer further to pay for kids someone else has and can't afford? Or for free college? Or free childcare?

There is no such thing as *free*. WE get stuck footing the bill. Our government spending should be cut and people need to be taxed less, not more.
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Old Yesterday, 06:33 PM
 
1,847 posts, read 468,290 times
Reputation: 1661
Quote:
Originally Posted by MnM258 View Post
Straw man question.

'Free' in this context means 'Free at the point of use', of course it still has to be paid for but the argument is for funding that comes from taxes rather than fees for users.
Right-wingers love these straw man arguments, speaking on our behalf, among themselves. Itís the echo chamber that they live in, talking among themselves instead of talking to actual liberals, progressives, independents, etc.

Of course everything has to be paid for, but itís all done according to income and the need for these essential services. This system exists in other advanced countries that have better quality of life indicators than us in virtually everything.
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Old Yesterday, 06:35 PM
 
5,338 posts, read 3,353,414 times
Reputation: 6504
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
I am not saying everything should be expensive, but I want people to profit from their work and support themselves with the profit they have earned. That should be the ultimate goal for every adult.

What is it that says something for nothing is the way society should work? Why is it attractive?
What to become rich:

Rule #1 Try and use as little of your own money as possible!
Rule #2 See Rule #1

Have you ever noticed that some not all billionaire sports team owners ask cities/counties/states to help pay for some or all of the cost of a new stadium/arena which can cost a billion or more. You want to know why, they aren't stupid, they didn't become wealthy spending their own money. They will take every handout they can, just like the homeless bum on the street!
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Old Yesterday, 06:49 PM
 
24,234 posts, read 12,032,235 times
Reputation: 10341
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Why is the idea of "free" pursued by liberals?

Free education
Free child care
Free health care
Free public transportation
Free access to the country from outsiders
Free family leave where no salary is lost


Why free?

Do they want to work for free? Heck no. They are constantly striving for higher minimum wages - yet they want everything for free. You put these two ideas together of wanting free stuff along with paying employees high wages and it absolutely cannot coexist.

I am not saying everything should be expensive, but I want people to profit from their work and support themselves with the profit they have earned. That should be the ultimate goal for every adult.

What is it that says something for nothing is the way society should work? Why is it attractive?
A lot entitlement minded idiots who have no clue how to pay for this largesse. There should be no ďfreeĒ anything.
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