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Old 07-30-2019, 08:48 PM
 
6,935 posts, read 3,861,053 times
Reputation: 14167

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Come on, this isn't a game of personalities.

Klobuchar and Warren are fundamentally different candidates. The fact that you can easily interchange them shows you're more concerned about presence and affect which are just political propaganda.

Think about what type of politics and society you want, not the easiest way to gain power.
A national election is, first and foremost, about the person, the candidate. It is the PRESENCE and leadership abilities of the person.

A candidate can have all the charts and plans in the world, but if the person isn't a natural leader with presence on the national stage, it's meaningless.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:48 PM
 
5,575 posts, read 8,449,755 times
Reputation: 3724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Come on, this isn't a game of personalities.

Klobuchar and Warren are fundamentally different candidates. The fact that you can easily interchange them shows you're more concerned about presence and affect which are just political propaganda.

Think about what type of politics and society you want, not the easiest way to gain power.
Of course it is. Ideas don't get the job done.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:49 PM
 
12,092 posts, read 21,709,482 times
Reputation: 11939
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
That's true. But voters don't get revved up about things that CAN be done vs. a wish list. Think about all of Trump's promises, most of which have been forgotten. Remember there was supposed to be a yuge infrastructure bill on Day One? Remember that Mexico would pay for The Wall? Remember that coal mining would spring back right away? Remember that he'd save all the Carrier jobs and prevent Carrier from moving to Mexico? Remember that the steel manufacturing would become what it once was? Remember that he'd see to it that GM would bring all those lost jobs back? (it's actually laying off thousands more) Remember that he was going to repeal and replace Obamacare? Replacing it with great health care, the best health care, insuring every single American at much less cost?

I think the idea is that they are giving what they would want to do, if they could. So you know what they would be working for.
Certain things may not be 100% to spec but Trump has actually delivered or worked toward delivering almost all of his "promises". Heck the US government took in over $10b from seizing El Chapo's bank accounts alone which does a long way to pay for "the wall".
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Barrington
46,705 posts, read 34,397,082 times
Reputation: 15515
Trump seems to be counting on competing with “ Sleepy Joe”.

A Bernie/ Warren ticket may have the best shot at beating Trump, especially given they can energize younger voters to put their phones down and vote.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:53 PM
 
Location: East Tennessee and Atlanta
3,830 posts, read 8,848,582 times
Reputation: 2653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Come on, this isn't a game of personalities.

Klobuchar and Warren are fundamentally different candidates. The fact that you can easily interchange them shows you're more concerned about presence and affect which are just political propaganda.

Think about what type of politics and society you want, not the easiest way to gain power.
Personality and perception are both huge in these debates though. Likability is a major factor.

Substance is important of course, but if substance is communicated like a hard elbow nudge to the ribs, they ain't gonna get the nomination.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:53 PM
 
6,935 posts, read 3,861,053 times
Reputation: 14167
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
Certain things may not be 100% to spec but Trump has actually delivered or worked toward delivering almost all of his "promises" before we was elected. Heck the US government took in over $10b from seizing El Chapo's bank accounts alone which does a long way to pay for "the wall".
He has delivered on few of his promises. But his followers didn't expect him to do all those things I listed, I guess.

I can assure you that the GM and Carrier and coal mine workers have noticed that he didn't deliver, and maybe didn't even try in some cases.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,898 posts, read 2,748,883 times
Reputation: 2634
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
That's true. But voters don't get revved up about things that CAN be done vs. a wish list. Think about all of Trump's promises, most of which have been forgotten. Remember there was supposed to be a yuge infrastructure bill on Day One? Remember that Mexico would pay for The Wall? Remember that coal mining would spring back right away? Remember that he'd save all the Carrier jobs and prevent Carrier from moving to Mexico? Remember that the steel manufacturing would become what it once was? Remember that he'd see to it that GM would bring all those lost jobs back? (it's actually laying off thousands more) Remember that he was going to repeal and replace Obamacare? Replacing it with great health care, the best health care, insuring every single American at much less cost?

I think the idea is that they are giving what they would want to do, if they could. So you know what they would be working for.
What is 'wish list politics'?

Its just how the neo-liberal consensus make contrary policies seem extravagant. Changing how policies are viewed and how politics are managed means that average people can want things beyond policies that increase economic growth and investment.

This is why politics is so limited, because a few have a monopoly on how you think about it.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:55 PM
 
6,935 posts, read 3,861,053 times
Reputation: 14167
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Trump seems to be counting on competing with “ Sleepy Joe”.

A Bernie/ Warren ticket may have the best shot at beating Trump, especially given they can energize younger voters to put their phones down and vote.
I think the nominee is probably going to be Biden, no matter what. He's just so far ahead of the others, and has been consistently since he entered the race.

The only question is who his VP will be.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:57 PM
 
12,092 posts, read 21,709,482 times
Reputation: 11939
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
He has delivered on few of his promises. But his followers didn't expect him to do all those things I listed, I guess.

I can assure you that the GM and Carrier and coal mine workers have noticed that he didn't deliver, and maybe didn't even try in some cases.
He has stopped the steep decline and held it steady:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/08/coal...mps-watch.html

Ironically China of all places has increased their coal power production.

The carrier plant is still there.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:57 PM
 
6,610 posts, read 9,543,014 times
Reputation: 3171
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
Certain things may not be 100% to spec but Trump has actually delivered or worked toward delivering almost all of his "promises" before we was elected. Heck the US government took in over $10b from seizing El Chapo's bank accounts alone which does a long way to pay for "the wall".
These are all failed promises from Russian Agent Orange

Mexico would pay for the wall now he is using money from the pentagon

ACA killed first day in office

He would push his amazing health care plan still not even heard one thing about it

Clinton would be in jail

He would release his taxes

He was going to drain the swamp he filled the swamp with 50 tons of more garbage

He would divest from his business he has not done this at all

He would not take hardly any vacations he goes to Maralogo at like 12pm to 2pm every Friday
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