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Old 07-31-2019, 08:15 AM
 
6,985 posts, read 3,882,242 times
Reputation: 14286

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Bernie and Harris. Two Dem frontrunners are effectively on board with screwing union member workers. That's what Dems stand for now.
The Democrats ARE the unions. They won't do anything unions don't approve of. If Republicans had their way, there would be no unions at all. They have actively sought to do away with unions, and have succeeded to a large extent.

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Old 07-31-2019, 08:17 AM
 
15,751 posts, read 9,336,592 times
Reputation: 14254
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
I did the math on her claim. It was $71 per American. Now THAT is evil I tell you!
That's great, if every single American actually paid that $71. But children won't, and the poor won't, which leaves the rest of us paying a lot more than $71.

And that $71 each doesn't take into consideration the fact that costs skyrocket every time the government gets involved.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:27 AM
 
6,985 posts, read 3,882,242 times
Reputation: 14286
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
Yeah that healthcare plan thing I think hit him hard. Republicans had almost a decade to come up with a plan yet when trump was elected they finally showed they had none. That isn't his fault.

Compare Trump's talking points to the candidates tonight...and you will see that at least his policies are actually being implemented (tariffs, holding China's feet to the fire, getting us out of entanglements that benefit the other countries and screw the US, the list goes on). A bunch are just saying things to get elected even when they know the majority of what they "propose" is just made up feel good stuff that has zero chance of getting through any sort of bipartisan voting process.
No, Trump has failed miserably in even trying to implement his promises. He just said foolish things because he didn't expect to win. He ran to increase his brand name and get more money when The Apprentice was renewed on tv.

He did not:

Prevent Carrier from moving to Mexico
Stop GM bleeding jobs, and get GM to move workers back to the U S to increase jobs (GM is laying off thousands more this year).
Provide health care to every citizen, on Day One, at much lower cost than the ACA.
Start the biggest infrastructure program ever...to fix all the bridges and roads and create more jobs than we've ever seen!
Bring back coal mining. (An obvious lie...coal mining is a thing of the past)
Stop Muslims from entering the country. (this was obviously against the Constitution...only a fool believed that)

The hardest thing to do in the U.S. is come up with a way for Americans to get access to health care.


There is no evidence that the increased taxes (tariffs) on the U S citizens (which is what that is), is helping. The only reason the country hasn't done worse with them is because we're giving free money to Americans who are on the verge of losing their homes and businesses because of the tariff taxes. Free money. Only because Trump is doing something foolish, without being shut down by other Republicans. YOUR money is being sent to individual citizens who are being harmed by Trump's policies. Not tax deductions. Checks are being sent.

So the Republicans have no credibility to complain about giving free money to citizens, any more. Or entitlements. Or deficits. Because they are very okay with all those things, when it suits them.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:33 AM
 
12,115 posts, read 21,747,093 times
Reputation: 11969
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusillirob1983 View Post
No, it is quite his fault. He said he was going to "do healthcare" (whatever that means), it was "going to be so easy", it was going to be "far less expensive and far better," and they were going to "repeal and replace". Then after being elected he said "nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated," which is only something a moron would say. I'd say most adults who pay medical bills, have a functioning brain and are honest with themselves knew that was a BS statement. So the guy explicitly campaigned on having the answers, therefore you can't blame Republicans. The Republicans' plan all along was just to repeal and go back to whatever we were doing in 2008 with millions less people with insurance and pre-existing conditions not being protected.
The republicans have dropped the ball on healthcare and I am disappointed at it. My personal viewpoint is I disagree with the current system of no consumer price shopping and disagree with the proposed system of "use whatever you want because it's free". But insurance companies do accomplish a decent amount of price shopping on consumers behalf and do a good job of keeping a lid on increased costs. The US produces the lions share of healthcare advances and the world takes advantage of that by mandating low reimbursement rates for advances.

Quote:
Tariffs are not helping. I work for a company that relies on a lot of raw materials. Costs are going up on steel and aluminum for instance. Farmers are getting killed on tariffs. They're losing customers, and then the U.S. government is spending billions to bail them out of the mess the stupid tariff policy created. Trump did his dumb photo ops with Kim Jong Un, giving legitimacy to a dictatorial regime that has slave labor camps and murders its citizens. They haven't done jack to reduce their missle program. Iran has had more uranium enrichment since we scrapped the nuclear deal.
Yet somehow the government was 90% funded by tariffs before the individual income tax was implemented in the 1900's. Clearly they can work. Adjustment is needed. The bigger issue is Trump actually has stated numerous times he wants zero tariffs worldwide on American products going into other countries. Sometimes you must take a step back in order to move forward.

Quote:
See healthcare example above about just saying stuff to get elected. Literally what Trump did. Also what Trump did RE: "Mexico's gonna pay for the wall."

Trump's also saying a bunch of "feel bad" stuff for the 2020 election. Literally telling people that they better vote for him otherwise their 401ks will lose value. Totally stupid. The stock market went up every year under Obama, which was no more due to him than the stock market increases under Trump (it's because of the Fed policies).
The market outperforms the norm when Congress is republican and vice versa. The president doesn't have much of a say in how the country is run, just veto power that can be overturned.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:37 AM
 
12,115 posts, read 21,747,093 times
Reputation: 11969
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
No, Trump has failed miserably in even trying to implement his promises. He just said foolish things because he didn't expect to win. He ran to increase his brand name and get more money when The Apprentice was renewed on tv.

He did not:

Prevent Carrier from moving to Mexico
Stop GM bleeding jobs, and get GM to move workers back to the U S to increase jobs (GM is laying off thousands more this year).
Provide health care to every citizen, on Day One, at much lower cost than the ACA.
Start the biggest infrastructure program ever...to fix all the bridges and roads and create more jobs than we've ever seen!
Bring back coal mining. (An obvious lie...coal mining is a thing of the past)
Stop Muslims from entering the country. (this was obviously against the Constitution...only a fool believed that)

The hardest thing to do in the U.S. is come up with a way for Americans to get access to health care.


There is no evidence that the increased taxes (tariffs) on the U S citizens (which is what that is), is helping. The only reason the country hasn't done worse with them is because we're giving free money to Americans who are on the verge of losing their homes and businesses because of the tariff taxes. Free money. Only because Trump is doing something foolish, without being shut down by other Republicans. YOUR money is being sent to individual citizens who are being harmed by Trump's policies. Not tax deductions. Checks are being sent.

So the Republicans have no credibility to complain about giving free money to citizens, any more. Or entitlements. Or deficits. Because they are very okay with all those things, when it suits them.
I've already addressed the others but you keep ignoring it so will move on, clearly you are biased and not wanting to actually debate. But on your last point he never said he wanted to stop Muslims from entering the country. India has the largest Muslim population in the world yet he did not even mention them...why? Because he targeted a half dozen countries that supply the lions share of the radicalized Muslims, the ones doing the bombings, beheadings, etc. His job is to keep America safe. I'm not sure why people can't differentiate the two, I mostly blame it on the MSM who has twisted around what is being said. Same as calling his point about Baltimore being racist, how can calling a city crappy be racist? It's not they are just trying to connect dots that aren't there.

I addressed the reason for the tariffs on my post above, he does not want tariffs, he wants no tariffs across the board.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:44 AM
 
6,985 posts, read 3,882,242 times
Reputation: 14286
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
I don't get the sense that any besides Buttigieg really understand what this is about. They are trying to debate policies and why theirs (the dem view) is better...but none have actually come out and said "elect me as your president and this is why".

Virtually all of what they are all talking about requires Congress to write AND pass bills with both side's support, and THEN the president can sign them.

There is absolutely zero chance of repealing all private healthcare here. Done deal. It would be political suicide to suggest it.

Warren keeps railing about the $23b in health insurance profits this year...what she doesn't understand is health insurance companies do a remarkable job keeping a lid on costs in an industry where $3.5 TRILLION is spent annually. And they do it way more efficiently than the government would be able to do it.
That's not true...that health ins. cos. keep a lid on costs. It's just the opposite.

First, put your thinking cap on. If a doctor charges $300, that's what you pay, if you pay directly. Enter an ins. co. The ins. co.'s fee is $150. Where does that $150 come from? You think the doctor is going to slash his bill in half? You think the patient is not going to have to foot part of the ins. fee?

No. What happens is, the doctor doubles his charge to $600, then makes a contract w/the ins. co. where the ins. co. will pay $300 to the dr., and pocket the rest. The patient has to pay a monthly premium of over $500 a month for the privilege of letting the ins. co. get in on it. AND the patient has to pay a hefty deductible and coinsurance.

I'm old enough to remember when few, if any, people had dental insurance. I'm also old enough to remember when maternity wasn't covered by insurance. What happened was....fees were very low, so that people could pay the bills. The care providers got their money directly, and patients got their services directly. They dealt w/each other directly, with no ins. company interfering.

The maternity fee in my area years ago was $1,200 for the doctor. That was for the ENTIRE 9 MONTHS of care. The hospital charge was in addition to that, and was likewise reasonable, since ins. wasn't involved.

When no one had dental insurance, it was CHEAP to get an exam and cleaning at a dentist. Less than $50 for both. Enter insurance. In my area, it's now about $300 to get an exam and cleaning because costs have risen so much to give the ins. co. its cut. Dental fees skyrocketed.

Care providers can't afford to slash their bills. It's expensive to provide medical and dental care. So in order to make a contract w/ins. cos., they are forced to increase their fees, so after the cut, they still get a decent profit.

The loser in all this is the American citizen, because of the billions of dollars being skimmed of the top by ins. cos. And Americans have lost their private one-on-one relationship with the care providers. It's the ins. cos. who control that relationship, now. Patients don't even know what the charges are, and can't find out if they ask. Because costs vary with the ins. co. contracts, and providers and ins. cos. don't want to reveal that, and in many cases, they don't know until the bill is turned in to the ins. co.

Also, we used to go to the dr. for an exam, and also discuss any medical problems. That is now controlled by ins. cos., who require your "well exam" to be done apart from visits for medical problems. So instead of going once to the doctor, patients now must go twice. This is a direct result of ins. co. payout rules, and not because of the doctor.

It's a very inefficient and costly way to provide health care. That's why we are last among First World countries in providing good health care at reasonable cost.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:56 AM
 
6,985 posts, read 3,882,242 times
Reputation: 14286
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
I've already addressed the others but you keep ignoring it so will move on, clearly you are biased and not wanting to actually debate. But on your last point he never said he wanted to stop Muslims from entering the country. India has the largest Muslim population in the world yet he did not even mention them...why? Because he targeted a half dozen countries that supply the lions share of the radicalized Muslims, the ones doing the bombings, beheadings, etc. His job is to keep America safe. I'm not sure why people can't differentiate the two, I mostly blame it on the MSM who has twisted around what is being said. Same as calling his point about Baltimore being racist, how can calling a city crappy be racist? It's not they are just trying to connect dots that aren't there.

I addressed the reason for the tariffs on my post above, he does not want tariffs, he wants no tariffs across the board.

I am biased only to the extent that I have powers of observation and can see that Trump has failed miserably, but his supporters, who apparently have short memories, are zeroing in on one or two things, and calling that "success!"

Yes, he did indeed say he wanted to stop Muslims from entering the country. He said that many times.

Quote:
Donald Trump, the leading contender to become the Republican party’s nominee for US presidential candidate, has called for a “total and complete shutdown” of the country’s borders to Muslims in the wake of the San Bernardino terrorist attack.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...rdino-shooting

Quote:
Donald Trump — who has spent his months atop the Republican polls slowly replacing the anti-immigrant rhetoric in his campaign with anti-Muslim rhetoric — is now officially calling to ban all Muslims from entering the United States.
https://www.vox.com/2015/12/7/986790...-trump-muslims

And here he is on video calling for a "total and complete shutdown" of Muslims entering the country.

https://youtu.be/viDffWUjcBA
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:02 AM
 
12,115 posts, read 21,747,093 times
Reputation: 11969
Your post was long but the gist of it is insurance inflates costs. And yes I agree with that. Well, to some extent. Insurance used regularly inflates costs. Medical care has become something that is always covered under insurance. I would posture that I would much prefer to have insurance for large claims (pick your deductible, ie $5000, $10,000) for things like cancer etc and everything else is consumer paid. Obamacare actually made those plans illegal.

What you are really talking about is getting insurance completely out of the low claim game, and I totally agree with that line of thinking. But Medicare for all will literally do the exact opposite. It will supply more money and drive more demand (don't take my word, that is exactly what happened in states that implemented it).

Overall the big picture is that insurance companies do not make much money. They have been demonized when they are the messenger in this whole shindig. Their margins are low vs the volume of money that passes through their hands. Getting rid of them will not appreciably lower folks medical care costs.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:04 AM
 
12,115 posts, read 21,747,093 times
Reputation: 11969
Thanks for the video clip. I was wrong he did say it I suppose. But again did you keep listening? He didn't want to permanently ban Muslims. This isn't about Muslims. This is about those in their radicalized ranks.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:09 AM
 
13,050 posts, read 4,743,170 times
Reputation: 5332
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
That's great, if every single American actually paid that $71. But children won't, and the poor won't, which leaves the rest of us paying a lot more than $71.

And that $71 each doesn't take into consideration the fact that costs skyrocket every time the government gets involved.
Is that why government health care is far cheaper than private health care in the rest of the world. Every time the government gets involved costs skyrocket, except everywhere else?
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