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Old 07-31-2019, 09:41 AM
 
12,313 posts, read 22,020,257 times
Reputation: 12256

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
So everywhere else, its cheaper when the government is involved, but if we try to do it, it will be the opposite?

Only big pharma CEOs can make themselves to believe such nonsense.
Look at what happened in MA. It drove significant increased demand.

So the answer to your question is in fact yes.

Other countries underpay our Pharma companies for their product. And Americans unfortunately foot the bill for their R&D.

I think everyone is in total agreement that costs are out of control. Where we differ is the WHY.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:58 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
68,243 posts, read 34,857,789 times
Reputation: 14748
Reminded me of interviewing people for a position as Prison Warden.
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:02 AM
 
7,338 posts, read 4,056,943 times
Reputation: 15131
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
Your post was long but the gist of it is insurance inflates costs. And yes I agree with that. Well, to some extent. Insurance used regularly inflates costs. Medical care has become something that is always covered under insurance. I would posture that I would much prefer to have insurance for large claims (pick your deductible, ie $5000, $10,000) for things like cancer etc and everything else is consumer paid. Obamacare actually made those plans illegal.

What you are really talking about is getting insurance completely out of the low claim game, and I totally agree with that line of thinking. But Medicare for all will literally do the exact opposite. It will supply more money and drive more demand (don't take my word, that is exactly what happened in states that implemented it).

Overall the big picture is that insurance companies do not make much money. They have been demonized when they are the messenger in this whole shindig. Their margins are low vs the volume of money that passes through their hands. Getting rid of them will not appreciably lower folks medical care costs.
I'm an investor of sorts. Investing in health ins. cos. is big bizness....they are very profitable. The profit margin for the sector is over 50%. In other words, most revenue goes toward profits, after expenses. And expenses include huge salaries for the top dogs, so they get generous salaries and benefits, plus the profit in addition. Who pays for that? We do. All those billions (trillions, really)get rolled into the cost of health care in the country.

As long as ins. cos. are involved in a regular way in the hc system, the prices of providers will be high, even if coverage is only for catastrophic care. That's because the service may or may not be paid for by an ins. co., depending on whether it's part of catastrophic care. Even ordinary services are part of catastrophic care.

Having a supplemental ins. program, that is bought by the wealthy class, that is above and beyond a universal system, should work. That is what Great Britain has, I think. That way, the ins. system is separate from the country's main system.

While having a catastrophic-only system may work for millions, it won't work for an entire country, because many people don't have the expendable income to self-insure. So we're back to square one. It gets us nothing.

I do believe that health care is a right. It's not a consumer item, like buying a car. People really do suffer and die from lack of health care. At the same time, I think the govt should push living a healthy lifestyle, which a certain segment of our society is determined not to do (live healthy, support public service announcements about living healthy). As long as that segment ridicules a First Lady for teaching children how to grow an organic garden of healthy foods, or a President for using arugula in his salad, we are doomed to having millions of citizens who are morbidly obese and diabetic.

One thing that's wrong in our country: I saw a human interest story on tv a few years ago. An older couple, complaining of the cost of insulin or how difficult it was to pay for it or something. While I was sympathetic to that, I noticed that both people were morbidly obese, and neither mentioned eating healthy or exercising, as they discussed their diabetes programs. It was only about drugs.
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:06 AM
 
13,290 posts, read 4,882,772 times
Reputation: 5481
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
Look at what happened in MA. It drove significant increased demand.

So the answer to your question is in fact yes.

Other countries underpay our Pharma companies for their product. And Americans unfortunately foot the bill for their R&D.

I think everyone is in total agreement that costs are out of control. Where we differ is the WHY.
MA is not a country. And they dont have single payer there.

Your pharma comment is just a talking point from the advertisement industry. Nothing to do with reality.
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:16 AM
 
11,911 posts, read 4,373,621 times
Reputation: 5643
Not a peep about Mueller or his investigation during last night's debate.
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:18 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
68,243 posts, read 34,857,789 times
Reputation: 14748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
Not a peep about Mueller or his investigation during last night's debate.
That was so, last week.
Nunes is getting [DECLAS] from Barr as I type.
Expect the release to be drip by drip, until Horowitz turns in his findings.
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Barrington
47,694 posts, read 34,948,622 times
Reputation: 15779
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Nothing is more costly than the crazy $40 000 average annual price tag for a family of four of the current system. To try to portray somewhat higher taxes for the average joe as just as bad and even worse than that $40 000 price tag is ridiculous.
Your $ is extrapolated from the health consumption expenditures per capita. This includes new born and ancients.

Most families of 4 do not consume $40,000 in healthcare.

That a family of 4 has a family member who receives a costly organ transplant or open heart surgery or cancer treatment in a given year is not representative of most families.

That 75% of us are overweight/ obese results in medical conditions that would otherwise be preventable.

Diabetes 2 is an epidemic. On average it cost almost $10,000 a year to treat each instance of Diabetes 2 and ensuing life threatening complications.
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Old 07-31-2019, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
10,323 posts, read 7,670,021 times
Reputation: 8919
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
I donít think most Americans under 65 are on prescription drugs.

75% of us are overweight/ obese and Diabetes is an epidemic. It should come as no surprise we spend the most.

Rest of the developed world has Universal Healthcare. No two countries do it the same way. Some rely entirely on private insurers. Most are a mixed bag of public and private.
consider the source of the claim. full of wild, unsubstantiated claims based on "things I've heard"...

2.3 seconds on google yielded this:

Quote:
More Americans Take Prescription Medication. Forty-four percent of all Americans take at least 1 prescription medication, and 17% take 3 or more medications.
I'm on 3. they're all generic. just picked them up today at Walgreen's. All are generic. $9.65 total. Yes, I'm on private health insurance.
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Old 07-31-2019, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Barrington
47,694 posts, read 34,948,622 times
Reputation: 15779
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Is that why government health care is far cheaper than private health care in the rest of the world. Every time the government gets involved costs skyrocket, except everywhere else?
No two countries do Universal Healthcare the same.

Japan decided to do something about the trend of obesity - the gateway to many serious and costly to treat diseases. Everyone is required to have their waist measured once a year. Those with measures beyond the generous healthy range receive counseling. Employers are required to measure all employees. Employers are required to reduce the percentage of outliers or are required to make higher contributions to the National Sickness Fund to offset the risk. Japan is making progress.

Some countries place a lower value on obese people in need of non - urgent surgeries.

Seems we here in the US want our cake and then engage in blame throwing about the cost of healthcare.
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Old 07-31-2019, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
10,323 posts, read 7,670,021 times
Reputation: 8919
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
That's great, if every single American actually paid that $71. But children won't, and the poor won't, which leaves the rest of us paying a lot more than $71.

And that $71 each doesn't take into consideration the fact that costs skyrocket every time the government gets involved.
sorry if I wasn't clear. Warren's claim of "insurance companies sucking 2.X billion dollars out of the system" amounts to just $71/population. We could do the math, and figure it out per household (mine would be $280), and assign the poor people to folks like me (maybe an extra $100?).

But her class warfare/bazillionaire/evil corporations spiel sounds worse when you just toss out $2.X billion.
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